Naw, just tired of self-serving pr*cks that leech off of the rest of us.
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ALPA: Time to learn from this vote.
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Naw, just tired of self-serving pr*cks that leech off of the rest of us.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Remarks of
Robert Sumwalt, Vice Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board
to the Air Line Pilots Association
International Pilots Assistance Forum
April 11, 2007
Denver, Colorado
Robert Sumwalt, Vice Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board
to the Air Line Pilots Association
International Pilots Assistance Forum
April 11, 2007
Denver, Colorado
“Pilot Assistance: Do we even need it today?”
It is absolutely great to be here with a group of dedicated people who devote their time to help others in the profession.
When I received the ALPA Air Safety Award, I said something that I believed then, and something that I believe now – ALPA work is important, it does make a difference, it does matter and it does save lives.
Jeff, I applaud your efforts to organize this event, which by all measures, appears to be a huge success. I know pulling it together has been a lot of work for many people, especially the ALPA staff.
If you are like me, you probably find tremendous value networking and having sidebar conversations in the hallways.
ALPA’s Administrative Manual says that the ALPA Pilot Assistance Committee “will provide guidance and assistance to any pilot having difficulty in any aspect of their professional or personal life which may affect their ability to safely operate an airplane.”
Well, just to be provocative, I have titled this presentation: “Pilot Assistance: Do we even need it today?” The answer to that rhetorical question is…, well, I’ll answer that in a few minutes.
In attempting to answer that question, let’s briefly discuss each of the disciplines of ALPA’s Pilot Assistance Committee.
Critical Incident Response Program
First, CIRP. I first met Mimi Tompkins at the ALPA air safety forum in 1991. She and Dr. Don Hudson had a panel where Mimi stood up in front of about 350 strangers and told of the trauma that she experienced following her 1988 accident. As I listened to her I turned to the person next to me and said, “We must never allow this to happen to another of our members.” And, as Mimi stepped off the stage, I introduced myself and told her that I wanted to help her develop a program to help prevent the very trauma that she endured.
We had a slow start, but we had great support and encouragement from former Professional Standards Chairmen Captain Jim McIntyre and Bob Lynch and from Dr. Don Hudson.
I knew that we needed to do something, but couldn’t quite figure out what we needed. It was sometime later that Mimi and I learned that Captain Alan Campbell of Delta was developing such a program for the Delta pilot group.
For the next several months, the three of us worked to develop a program and in May 1994 the ALPA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution to form the ALPA Critical Incident Response Program.
As Jan Steenblik wrote a few years ago in Air Line Pilot, ALPA’s CIRP is about “being there for fellow pilots, lending an ear - and a helping hand – when bad stuff happens.”
What became very evident through the process of building this program was the need for this type of program.
Dr. Hudson told us that of those ALPA crew members who contacted the ALPA Aeromedical Office following a critical incident/accident, approximately 70 percent of those who received proper treatment continued their aviation careers, but of those who did not receive treatment, approximately 60 to 70 percent left their aviation careers within two years of the critical incident.
Some committed suicide.
Simply put, CIRP helps save lives.
Professional Standards
I had barely 100 hours in my logbook in October 1974, when the NTSB wrote a recommendation letter to the FAA. This letter was following a CFIT accident a year earlier where a Texas International Airlines Convair 600 crashed into the Black Fork Mountain in Arkansas. The crew deviated some 80 miles off course for thunderstorms and were trying to do it on a VFR flight plan.
About 12 minutes before impact, the crew initiated a descent from 3000 feet. The First Officer stated, “I sure wish I know where… we were.”
A few minutes later he said, “Paining ridges and everything else, boss, and I’m not familiar with the terrain.”
When the captain made the decision to descend to 2000 feet msl, the First Officer continued to express his doubts about terrain clearance. “Man, I wish I knew where we were so we’d have some idea of the general terrain around this place.”
The First Office then located their approximate position on a chart. The CVR ended on an ominous note with the FO stating, “the minimum enroute altitude here is forty-four hun…”
The aircraft struck terrain about 600 feet below the ridgeline.
Although the Safety Board’s October 1974 recommendation letter was in response to this accident, it also referenced other accidents where the Safety Board cited “serious lapses in expected professional conduct” of pilots.
The letter said: “History has proved that neither increased flight checks nor new regulations, alone, will improve safety; nor will these actions ensure professional performance. Yet, professionalism is fundamental to safe operations in civil aviation.”
The Safety Board went on to state: “The high standards of professionalism possessed by most pilots must be instilled in all pilots. Professional standards committees should be able to assist substantially in this regard.”
With that, in 1974 the Safety Board recommended that pilot associations form new, and regenerate old, professional standards committees to promote crew discipline and professionalism.
Through the years, ALPA’s professional standards program has had many successes. That said, those of us who consider ourselves professionals were quite disappointed as details emerged concerning October 2004 Pinnacle Airlines flight 3701.
In January of this year the Safety Board determined probable cause of that accident to be, in part, “the pilots’ unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures and poor airmanship, which resulted in an in-flight emergency from which they were unable to recover…”
For the record, I voted, along with my four colleagues on the Board, to adopt that language. To be clear, my obligation as a Board Member if to call it the way I see it, even when I don’t like what I see.
Not unlike 1974 recommendation letter, our recommendation letter for the Pinnacle accident referenced six fairly recent accidents in which the board cited the “lack of cockpit discipline and adherence to standard operating procedures.”
The report said that it is clear that “most pilots conduct flight operations with a high degree of professionalism. Nevertheless, a problem still exists in the aviation industry with some pilots acting unprofessionally and not adhering to standard operating procedures, as demonstrated by recent accidents…”
Here is the part of the Safety Recommendation that applies directly to you: “Because pilot unions have expertise in safety, training, and operations and have a vested interest in advancing professional standards among the pilots they represent, these groups are well positioned to take a leadership role to establish new educations approaches for reinforcing professionalism in the aviation industry.”
The Safety Board issued Recommendation A-07-8, which called for the FAA to “work with pilot associations to develop a specific program of education for air carrier pilots that addresses professional standards and their role in ensuring safety of flight. This program should include associated guidance information and references to recent accidents involving pilots acting unprofessionally or not following standard operating procedures.”
So, yes, it appears that in spite of a very successful professional standards program over the years, they are still vitally needed.
The ALPA administrative manual says that ALPA supports the highest standards of professional conduct among its members and I urge you to continue your efforts here.
People die when professionalism is left at the gate.
When I received the ALPA Air Safety Award, I said something that I believed then, and something that I believe now – ALPA work is important, it does make a difference, it does matter and it does save lives.
Jeff, I applaud your efforts to organize this event, which by all measures, appears to be a huge success. I know pulling it together has been a lot of work for many people, especially the ALPA staff.
If you are like me, you probably find tremendous value networking and having sidebar conversations in the hallways.
ALPA’s Administrative Manual says that the ALPA Pilot Assistance Committee “will provide guidance and assistance to any pilot having difficulty in any aspect of their professional or personal life which may affect their ability to safely operate an airplane.”
Well, just to be provocative, I have titled this presentation: “Pilot Assistance: Do we even need it today?” The answer to that rhetorical question is…, well, I’ll answer that in a few minutes.
In attempting to answer that question, let’s briefly discuss each of the disciplines of ALPA’s Pilot Assistance Committee.
Critical Incident Response Program
First, CIRP. I first met Mimi Tompkins at the ALPA air safety forum in 1991. She and Dr. Don Hudson had a panel where Mimi stood up in front of about 350 strangers and told of the trauma that she experienced following her 1988 accident. As I listened to her I turned to the person next to me and said, “We must never allow this to happen to another of our members.” And, as Mimi stepped off the stage, I introduced myself and told her that I wanted to help her develop a program to help prevent the very trauma that she endured.
We had a slow start, but we had great support and encouragement from former Professional Standards Chairmen Captain Jim McIntyre and Bob Lynch and from Dr. Don Hudson.
I knew that we needed to do something, but couldn’t quite figure out what we needed. It was sometime later that Mimi and I learned that Captain Alan Campbell of Delta was developing such a program for the Delta pilot group.
For the next several months, the three of us worked to develop a program and in May 1994 the ALPA Executive Board unanimously passed a resolution to form the ALPA Critical Incident Response Program.
As Jan Steenblik wrote a few years ago in Air Line Pilot, ALPA’s CIRP is about “being there for fellow pilots, lending an ear - and a helping hand – when bad stuff happens.”
What became very evident through the process of building this program was the need for this type of program.
Dr. Hudson told us that of those ALPA crew members who contacted the ALPA Aeromedical Office following a critical incident/accident, approximately 70 percent of those who received proper treatment continued their aviation careers, but of those who did not receive treatment, approximately 60 to 70 percent left their aviation careers within two years of the critical incident.
Some committed suicide.
Simply put, CIRP helps save lives.
Professional Standards
I had barely 100 hours in my logbook in October 1974, when the NTSB wrote a recommendation letter to the FAA. This letter was following a CFIT accident a year earlier where a Texas International Airlines Convair 600 crashed into the Black Fork Mountain in Arkansas. The crew deviated some 80 miles off course for thunderstorms and were trying to do it on a VFR flight plan.
About 12 minutes before impact, the crew initiated a descent from 3000 feet. The First Officer stated, “I sure wish I know where… we were.”
A few minutes later he said, “Paining ridges and everything else, boss, and I’m not familiar with the terrain.”
When the captain made the decision to descend to 2000 feet msl, the First Officer continued to express his doubts about terrain clearance. “Man, I wish I knew where we were so we’d have some idea of the general terrain around this place.”
The First Office then located their approximate position on a chart. The CVR ended on an ominous note with the FO stating, “the minimum enroute altitude here is forty-four hun…”
The aircraft struck terrain about 600 feet below the ridgeline.
Although the Safety Board’s October 1974 recommendation letter was in response to this accident, it also referenced other accidents where the Safety Board cited “serious lapses in expected professional conduct” of pilots.
The letter said: “History has proved that neither increased flight checks nor new regulations, alone, will improve safety; nor will these actions ensure professional performance. Yet, professionalism is fundamental to safe operations in civil aviation.”
The Safety Board went on to state: “The high standards of professionalism possessed by most pilots must be instilled in all pilots. Professional standards committees should be able to assist substantially in this regard.”
With that, in 1974 the Safety Board recommended that pilot associations form new, and regenerate old, professional standards committees to promote crew discipline and professionalism.
Through the years, ALPA’s professional standards program has had many successes. That said, those of us who consider ourselves professionals were quite disappointed as details emerged concerning October 2004 Pinnacle Airlines flight 3701.
In January of this year the Safety Board determined probable cause of that accident to be, in part, “the pilots’ unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures and poor airmanship, which resulted in an in-flight emergency from which they were unable to recover…”
For the record, I voted, along with my four colleagues on the Board, to adopt that language. To be clear, my obligation as a Board Member if to call it the way I see it, even when I don’t like what I see.
Not unlike 1974 recommendation letter, our recommendation letter for the Pinnacle accident referenced six fairly recent accidents in which the board cited the “lack of cockpit discipline and adherence to standard operating procedures.”
The report said that it is clear that “most pilots conduct flight operations with a high degree of professionalism. Nevertheless, a problem still exists in the aviation industry with some pilots acting unprofessionally and not adhering to standard operating procedures, as demonstrated by recent accidents…”
Here is the part of the Safety Recommendation that applies directly to you: “Because pilot unions have expertise in safety, training, and operations and have a vested interest in advancing professional standards among the pilots they represent, these groups are well positioned to take a leadership role to establish new educations approaches for reinforcing professionalism in the aviation industry.”
The Safety Board issued Recommendation A-07-8, which called for the FAA to “work with pilot associations to develop a specific program of education for air carrier pilots that addresses professional standards and their role in ensuring safety of flight. This program should include associated guidance information and references to recent accidents involving pilots acting unprofessionally or not following standard operating procedures.”
So, yes, it appears that in spite of a very successful professional standards program over the years, they are still vitally needed.
The ALPA administrative manual says that ALPA supports the highest standards of professional conduct among its members and I urge you to continue your efforts here.
People die when professionalism is left at the gate.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
Cont...
HIMS
The ALPA Code of Ethics and Cannons state that an airline pilot “will realize that nothing more certainly fosters prejudices against and deprives the profession of its high public esteem and confidence than do breaches in the use of alcohol.”
As I was preparing this speech I read an article that mentioned an airline pilot – in this case a pilot who was flying for a very large non-ALPA airline – who had been arrested in uniform, going through security, on his way to his 777. His BAC was reportedly 6 times the legal limit.
The entire profession cringes when we hear stories like this. The piloting community is the brunt of jokes on Letterman and Leno. But, unfortunately, it is not a joke. It is a serious problem that must be addressed.
ALPA has not put its head in the sand on this issue. For over 30 years, with the cooperation of the FAA and almost all the airlines in North America, thousands of airline pilots have been successfully treated for alcoholism and able to return to their flying careers through the HIMS program.
It is a success story that must continue. I suspect that with increased pressures brought on by airline financial difficulties, we have increased the potential for emotional difficulties with employees. And, of course, some turn to alcohol to treat their problems.
So, HIMS is important. And it, too, saves lives.
Aeromedical
When I was an active ALPA member, I thought the ALPA Aeromedical Office was a great benefit. The primary benefit, of course, is that pilots can discuss health matters, in complete confidence, with a physician who knows and understands the professional aviator’s work environment and FAA regulations and policies. Their ultimate goal is to preserve both the pilot’s health and FAA medical certificate.
They receive over 300 calls each day.
A few years ago I received a phone call from “Tom,” a pilot for a corporate flight department. Tom was a good friend of mine and he confided in me that he and others suspected that one of their pilots was suicidal. Tom was calling to ask if I had any idea how to deal with this situation. Even though their company was not involved with ALPA, I knew that the physicians in the ALPA Aeromedical Office had knowledge in how to deal with such a situation. So, I suggested that Tom contact the experts here in Denver. He did and his suspicions were confirmed – the symptoms displayed by this pilot were indeed, consistent with someone contemplating suicide.
With that confirmation, that company was able to outline a plan to get the pilot help that was desperately needed. I think these actions literally saved his life.
Canadian Pilot Assistance
This program has been working well for a long time. When Alan, Mimi and I were working to form the ALPA CIRP, it was before the ALPA/CALPA merger. We turned to our brethren north of the border – those who at the time were active with CALPA’s Pilot Assistance Program – and asked for their assistance and counsel in developing our program. They were a big help to us.
So, this program, too, saves lives.
Conclusions
When I received the ALPA Air Safety Award in 2005 I cited words that are chiseled into the tombstone of Arthur Schindler. If you have seen the movie Schindler’s List or done any reading about the atrocities of the Nazi holocaust, you will recognize that Schindler was one who literally saved thousands from the death camps.
“And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.”
As I went through each of the above-mentioned disciplines, I noted that they save lives. CIRP, Professional Standards, HIMS, Aeromedical and Pilot Assistance – they all have potential to save lives.
The ALPA Code of Ethics and Cannons state that an airline pilot “will realize that nothing more certainly fosters prejudices against and deprives the profession of its high public esteem and confidence than do breaches in the use of alcohol.”
As I was preparing this speech I read an article that mentioned an airline pilot – in this case a pilot who was flying for a very large non-ALPA airline – who had been arrested in uniform, going through security, on his way to his 777. His BAC was reportedly 6 times the legal limit.
The entire profession cringes when we hear stories like this. The piloting community is the brunt of jokes on Letterman and Leno. But, unfortunately, it is not a joke. It is a serious problem that must be addressed.
ALPA has not put its head in the sand on this issue. For over 30 years, with the cooperation of the FAA and almost all the airlines in North America, thousands of airline pilots have been successfully treated for alcoholism and able to return to their flying careers through the HIMS program.
It is a success story that must continue. I suspect that with increased pressures brought on by airline financial difficulties, we have increased the potential for emotional difficulties with employees. And, of course, some turn to alcohol to treat their problems.
So, HIMS is important. And it, too, saves lives.
Aeromedical
When I was an active ALPA member, I thought the ALPA Aeromedical Office was a great benefit. The primary benefit, of course, is that pilots can discuss health matters, in complete confidence, with a physician who knows and understands the professional aviator’s work environment and FAA regulations and policies. Their ultimate goal is to preserve both the pilot’s health and FAA medical certificate.
They receive over 300 calls each day.
A few years ago I received a phone call from “Tom,” a pilot for a corporate flight department. Tom was a good friend of mine and he confided in me that he and others suspected that one of their pilots was suicidal. Tom was calling to ask if I had any idea how to deal with this situation. Even though their company was not involved with ALPA, I knew that the physicians in the ALPA Aeromedical Office had knowledge in how to deal with such a situation. So, I suggested that Tom contact the experts here in Denver. He did and his suspicions were confirmed – the symptoms displayed by this pilot were indeed, consistent with someone contemplating suicide.
With that confirmation, that company was able to outline a plan to get the pilot help that was desperately needed. I think these actions literally saved his life.
Canadian Pilot Assistance
This program has been working well for a long time. When Alan, Mimi and I were working to form the ALPA CIRP, it was before the ALPA/CALPA merger. We turned to our brethren north of the border – those who at the time were active with CALPA’s Pilot Assistance Program – and asked for their assistance and counsel in developing our program. They were a big help to us.
So, this program, too, saves lives.
Conclusions
When I received the ALPA Air Safety Award in 2005 I cited words that are chiseled into the tombstone of Arthur Schindler. If you have seen the movie Schindler’s List or done any reading about the atrocities of the Nazi holocaust, you will recognize that Schindler was one who literally saved thousands from the death camps.
“And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.”
As I went through each of the above-mentioned disciplines, I noted that they save lives. CIRP, Professional Standards, HIMS, Aeromedical and Pilot Assistance – they all have potential to save lives.
The work you are doing – it does save lives, and if you have saved just one life, it is as if you have saved an entire world.
So, yes, as I said at the beginning: ALPA work is important. It does matter, it does make a difference, and yes, it does save lives.
Now, back to that question - Pilot Assistance – Do We Even Need It Today? In case you haven’t figured it out by now, yes, we need it more now than ever.
ALPA is fortunate to have dedicated volunteers, staff and friends who are devoted to fulfilling this mission.
You are, as the slogan of this meeting says, “Meeting the challenge.”
Congratulations. Keep up the great work!
So, yes, as I said at the beginning: ALPA work is important. It does matter, it does make a difference, and yes, it does save lives.
Now, back to that question - Pilot Assistance – Do We Even Need It Today? In case you haven’t figured it out by now, yes, we need it more now than ever.
ALPA is fortunate to have dedicated volunteers, staff and friends who are devoted to fulfilling this mission.
You are, as the slogan of this meeting says, “Meeting the challenge.”
Congratulations. Keep up the great work!
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is....... Everything about your career up till this point has been "self-serving".... You don't go from Gulfstream to Pinnacle to Air Tran to "better the profession".......
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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- Mar 31, 2005
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Rez, you didn't define "professional", you simply quoted a speech that gives accolade to various ALPA programs, such as HIMS and Pro Standards.... That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't prove that Skywest pilots are not professionals...... They are professionals in everyone's eyes except the ALPA zealots..... Is it any wonder the vote failed......
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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- 13,422
Joe...wikipedia can be sourced by any clown... heck I wouldn't be surpised if you made an entry for the RJDC that would make your mother proud...
If you want to talk about guilds and writers who make jokes for Letterman and Leno.. that's fine...
Check out the FAA's Aviation Instructor Handbook
- Professionalism exists only when a service is performed for someone, or for the common good.
• Professionalism is achieved only after extended training and preparation.
• True performance as a professional is based on study and research.
• Professionals must be able to reason logically and accurately.
• Professionalism requires the ability to make good judgmental decisions. Professionals cannot limit their actions and decisions to standard patterns and practices.
• Professionalism demands a code of ethics.
Professionals must be true to themselves and to those they service. Anything less than a sincere performance is quickly detected, and immediately
destroys their effectiveness.• True performance as a professional is based on study and research.
• Professionals must be able to reason logically and accurately.
• Professionalism requires the ability to make good judgmental decisions. Professionals cannot limit their actions and decisions to standard patterns and practices.
• Professionalism demands a code of ethics.
Professionals must be true to themselves and to those they service. Anything less than a sincere performance is quickly detected, and immediately
The 5th bullet point... without the grievence process and representation it is harder to exercise good judgement... or at least judgement without fear or retribution from ones employer...
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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- Mar 31, 2005
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Interesting that you have now chosen to reference the FAA Aviation Instructors Handbook for professionalism...
1. Most Aviation Instructors are not members of a union..... Neither are Doctors or Lawyers..... Therefor we have now established that you do not need to be a member of a union to be a professional, even though that is the point you are trying to make...
2. How many ALPA pilots can site the ALPA code of ethics? How many ALPA pilots know were to find the ALPA code of ethics? How many ALPA pilots even know that there is an ALPA code of ethics?
3. Would you be happy if SAPA put together a Skywest pilot's "code of ethics"?
4. Your going to need a better reason to get people to give up 2% of their pay......
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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You learn something new everyday Joe...
No but a code of ethics...
Maybe if you read the code you wouldn't have sued ALPA.....
But does it matter.... how many Americans have read the Dec and Constitution?
If they did do you think it would be management flavored?
If the NTSB giving a blushing seal approval isn't enough then I don't know what is...
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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WOW..... a Government "blushing seal of approval"..... Not exactly overwelming evidence for a Libertarian like myself.... I'm not impressed with much our Federal Govt. does or says.....
We get it Rez.... You want the Skywest pilots to follow the ALPA code of ethics..... but they have to give up 1.95% of their pay for this privledge...... That won't get the votes Rez....
We need to get to the COLLECTIVE BARGAINING part of ALPA..... That is the problem....... There is no "collective" in it anymore.....
Like I said, John, already answered that in a previous thread. And you can still go fu&* yourself.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Another impressive retort from the ALPA cheerleader section.....
Face it PCL..... you like the majority of people in this career do what is best for themselves...... You did what was best for you, not necessarily what was best for the profession....
ATR Pirate
Well-known member
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- Oct 27, 2006
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- 45
hey john pennekamp
hey john, don't let me catch you trying to ride a jumpseat on one our (SKYWEST) 2000+ flights a day to almost every state on the continent either...i'm sure our airline has more destinations than yours..and if you keep making threats like that, everyone is going to know your name...
And i know personally tons of guys leaving for Southwest, Delta, United...plenty of union carriers..we've been NON union for over 35 years, and never had problems getting hired other places...haha you're an idiot dude..
hey john, don't let me catch you trying to ride a jumpseat on one our (SKYWEST) 2000+ flights a day to almost every state on the continent either...i'm sure our airline has more destinations than yours..and if you keep making threats like that, everyone is going to know your name...
And i know personally tons of guys leaving for Southwest, Delta, United...plenty of union carriers..we've been NON union for over 35 years, and never had problems getting hired other places...haha you're an idiot dude..
ATR Pirate
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
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- 45
yeah you're right JOE..ASA pilots are all welcome on my (skywest) jumpseats anytime...Blame Alpa because they suck...jumpseats are for everyone..one jumpseat denial at a time can screw you, and your airline friends from riding on a carrier..i'd watch out JP..
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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John Pennekamp
I'd rather be here...
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Ooooh I'm so scared. And when did FOs start approving jumpseats anyhow? Maybe you should just shut up, do your paperwork, and go get your captain his coffee, not make threats you can't back up, big FO man.
N2264J
Re: member
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Re: ALPA: Time to learn from this vote
That wasn't the point I'm trying to make. ALPA's decision to uphold the abitration award was fair and right in my view.
But you are correct, the US Airways pilot's bad behavior is connected at the hip with scope.
After the East pilots imposed their will on the Piedmont, Alleghany and PSA pilots via scope, (contract within a contract, slotted bidding, diversion of growth jet aircraft from Alleghany/Piedmont), they recoil in horror when they don't get their way and start a decertification drive. Ironic, no?
US Airways is one of the big players in ALPA. You don't see why a relatively small pilot group would exercise extreme caution when considering bringing ALPA on to their property?
That wasn't the point I'm trying to make. ALPA's decision to uphold the abitration award was fair and right in my view.
But you are correct, the US Airways pilot's bad behavior is connected at the hip with scope.
After the East pilots imposed their will on the Piedmont, Alleghany and PSA pilots via scope, (contract within a contract, slotted bidding, diversion of growth jet aircraft from Alleghany/Piedmont), they recoil in horror when they don't get their way and start a decertification drive. Ironic, no?
US Airways is one of the big players in ALPA. You don't see why a relatively small pilot group would exercise extreme caution when considering bringing ALPA on to their property?
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10nCLR
Oh, Yeah!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
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- 481
John, just wondering if you will let a non-union dispatcher sit in your "Union" jumpseat? Just curious.
John you might want to do some fact checking before you post your BS...
Railway and airline employees are not protected by state Right to Work laws.
Under the RLA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.
Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an "agency fee.")
http://www.nrtw.org/a/a_1_r.htm
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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- Feb 16, 2006
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- 2,644
Get their own Union!
On the one hand you admit that ALPA trying to represent the interests of every airline "is what it is." So your solution is to accept this and move forward? A reality check will show that is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The different pilot groups will never come together under that banner---it is what it is. You can only influence what goes on in your own airline...so leave it at that and form your own Union. And what better model to follow than SWAPA? I'm not anti-Union...I'm anti-ALPA. Good luck to all those saving the jumpseat for ALPA pilots only.
Now you can proceed to tell me to go read a book called flying the line with a bunch of BS that applied in the 30s and 40s and when your dinosaur of a Union was really needed. Or you can use some more scare tactics about jungle laws and why we won't survive without ALPA...
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CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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Nicely put, Joe.
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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John Pennekamp
I'd rather be here...
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All of our dispatchers at ASA are union (PAFCA), and only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat, so no.
homerjdispatch
Gods gift to dispatch
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so john, You arent going to allow Union dispatchers from other companies in your jumpseat? Why have a CASS system and allow dispatchers in it? What about Delta dispatchers? Are they welcome in "your" jumpseat?
10nCLR
Oh, Yeah!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Posts
- 481
John, so you are saying that you need a CASS system that differentiates between Union and non Union members. So you would deny me a jumpseat just because I am not in a Union. That's hilariously asinie.
They can't afford it, and they don't have the experience to make it effective.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Nevets
Well-known member
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- Oct 22, 2007
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From June/July 2006 Airline Pilot
Rumors have been circulating about some ALPA pilots refusing to allow jumpseaters from select non-ALPA and low-cost airlines. Please do not let politics into the jumpseat. While you might feel good about having denied a jumpseater from a non-ALPA or low-cost airline, your ALPA brothers and sisters might be denied a much needed jumpseat on one of those airlines commuting to or from their base. Your actions can have implications far beyond the immediate situation. Also, ALPA's long-term goal is to represent the entire airline piloting profession--and that means every one of us is a field organizer for our union. A jumpseat is one more opportunity to educate and influence our non-ALPA brothers and sisters.--Second Officer Dan Gradwohl (Northwest), Chairman, ALPA National Jumpseat Comittee
AND
ALPA Reasserts Policy on Jumpseat Restrictions
During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.
ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable asset."
abc123
Rumors have been circulating about some ALPA pilots refusing to allow jumpseaters from select non-ALPA and low-cost airlines. Please do not let politics into the jumpseat. While you might feel good about having denied a jumpseater from a non-ALPA or low-cost airline, your ALPA brothers and sisters might be denied a much needed jumpseat on one of those airlines commuting to or from their base. Your actions can have implications far beyond the immediate situation. Also, ALPA's long-term goal is to represent the entire airline piloting profession--and that means every one of us is a field organizer for our union. A jumpseat is one more opportunity to educate and influence our non-ALPA brothers and sisters.--Second Officer Dan Gradwohl (Northwest), Chairman, ALPA National Jumpseat Comittee
AND
ALPA Reasserts Policy on Jumpseat Restrictions
During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.
ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.
"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."
ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.
"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable asset."
abc123
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