ALPA: Time to learn from this vote.

[10nCLR]

Post by Nevets pretty much states it all. Okay, so now it seems that JP is going against what his very own Union says not to do. I don't think being a non union member compromises safety in the flight deck. Do you John? So, are you not punishing, coercing, or retaliating against another pilot group or individuals who don't support ALPA, by not allowing them access to the jumpseat? I think you are. If you are so pro ALPA, then how come your not following their policies? Come on JP, can't we all just get along?
But like I said before, your statement is hilariously asinine.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Typical bureaucratic B.S.

Just another Dog and Pony show...

How do you mean?

 

[CopilotDoug]

They can't afford it, and they don't have the experience to make it effective.

What Union represents Airtran? ALPA must not have been too effective at PCL for you to up and leave for Airtran...

 

[CopilotDoug]

How do you mean?

I don't put much stock in a government agency lauding a political entity

 

[PCL_128]

What Union represents Airtran?

The NPA, which is an in-house union. We have the resources to fund our own union because our average pilot makes about double what the average Skywest pilot does. We also pay more dues than ALPA members do in order to fund everything during negotiations. If Skywest pilots want to pay 5% in dues, then they can probably afford their own union, but I doubt that anyone wants to give up 5% of their paycheck. As for experience and resources, I think it's obvious that the NPA is woefully deficient in these areas compared to ALPA. The problems we've had over the past six months with the TAs never would have happened with ALPA representation. It was a complete cluster.

ALPA must not have been too effective at PCL for you to up and leave for Airtran...

I estimated my career earnings at Pinnacle would have been just north of $2 million if I stayed for the duration of my career. They'll be closer to $5 million at AirTran. Easy choice. ALPA does as good a job as possible in representing the regionals, but they simply aren't career jobs. You can never make a career out of an airline that really isn't an airline, but rather a contractor for real airlines. I believe PCL ALPA will be incredibly effective in getting the PCL pilots a great new contract, but it still wouldn't be a job that I could call a career, because there will always be the issue that Pinnacle is just a contractor for other airlines, and those contracts can disappear at any time with another RFP.

 

[Morning Wood]

so john, You arent going to allow Union dispatchers from other companies in your jumpseat? Why have a CASS system and allow dispatchers in it? What about Delta dispatchers? Are they welcome in "your" jumpseat?

Delta's dispatchers are union, so they probably are welcome in his jumpseat.

 

[10nCLR]

All of our dispatchers at ASA are union (PAFCA), and only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat, so no.

I think Homer was making reference to the part "only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat", unfortunately we all know how JP feels. It's too bad, because he'll be challenging his own Union's policy towards jumpseating while infracting his code of ALPA ethics. That's professional. I'm glad the majority of SkyWest pilots said no way to ALPA.
Anyway, off that subject.
Upon checking the PAFCA.org website and clicking on "Discussion Board" then "Main Forum, oh-oh, whoa!, wait-a-minute, what's this, oh yeah! special links. Check for yourself. It's probably not appropriate for a Union's website representing a professional group to have that there, but o'well. LOL!

 

[PCL_128]

It's too bad, because he'll be challenging his own Union's policy towards jumpseating while infracting his code of ALPA ethics.

ALPA's jumpseat policy is intentionally ambiguous so as to allow Captains the authority to make decisions about their own jumpseats. For every statement in the policy that states that ALPA discourages denials, there's two more statements that reiterate the Captain's authority to deny whoever he wants. The email that Nevets posted earlier was a knee-jerk response from National because of the deluge of complaints that the committee received about NWA Captains denying JetBlue pilots last year, but ALPA always defends the Captain's right to deny anybody he wants.

 

[BE90flyer]

ALPA's jumpseat policy is intentionally ambiguous so as to allow Captains the authority to make decisions about their own jumpseats. For every statement in the policy that states that ALPA discourages denials, there's two more statements that reiterate the Captain's authority to deny whoever he wants. The email that Nevets posted earlier was a knee-jerk response from National because of the deluge of complaints that the committee received about NWA Captains denying JetBlue pilots last year, but ALPA always defends the Captain's right to deny anybody he wants.

We now know the reason PCL became a pilot. For most people its because they have a true love of aviation, flying is in there blood. Thats why most pilots like to get as much experience as possible. They flight instruct, fly frieght or charter and then move into an airline job.

Not the case for PCL, he became a pilot for the POWER. "IT'S MY PLANE, I OWN THE JUMPSEAT, EVERYBODY MUST LISTEN TO ME, RESPECT MY AUTHORRRRRRITYYYY........

He skipped the steps that most people take because he doesnt give a shiiiiiiit about flying, its being an airline pilot that he wants to be.

PCL, you really make me sick. I have flown with people like and you and thats why i am longer an airline pilot. You do far worse thiings to the airline business then any big bad corporation or mean CEO.

Do us all a favor and just go away.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't put much stock in a government agency lauding a political entity

What does the NTSB have to gain?

Or why would he say those things about ALPA?

 

[PCL_128]

Not the case for PCL, he became a pilot for the POWER. "IT'S MY PLANE, I OWN THE JUMPSEAT, EVERYBODY MUST LISTEN TO ME, RESPECT MY AUTHORRRRRRITYYYY........

I think all of my former FOs would disagree with that assessment. Couldn't be further from the truth. However, I do think it's extremely important to protect Captain's authority. Guys like you have sat on your ass and not said anything as companies continue to strip away Captain's authority bit by bit. It's a major problem.

 

[antisocialist]

Oh yes. Threaten them with the jumpseat. It's not just a jumpseat, folks. It could mean a no-show for a commuter and maybe his job. Or it could mean less time with his family and cost him his marriage. But that's okay, because his politics don't match mine. You can't discriminate against anyone for race, gender, or sexual orientation but if he's not union, the gloves are off. Threats, intimidation, insults. If he doesn't agree with us, we'll beat him until he does! This is the way to unity! Isn't communism great!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oh yes. Threaten them with the jumpseat. It's not just a jumpseat, folks. It could mean a no-show for a commuter and maybe his job. Or it could mean less time with his family and cost him his marriage. But that's okay, because his politics don't match mine. You can't discriminate against anyone for race, gender, or sexual orientation but if he's not union, the gloves are off. Threats, intimidation, insults. If he doesn't agree with us, we'll beat him until he does! This is the way to unity! Isn't communism great!

Wrong! Being a SKYW pilot is supporting totalitarianism. No vote, no choice, no input, no nothing. Jerry speaks... you move. How fast is detrermined by Jerry. It would be more difficult more me to look at my wife if my boss treated me like this...

ALPA is a democracy.. one can be as involved in the direction of thier career. Same with our gov't. Want to run for congress? Be president... all possible..

The reason why guys are pissed about you guys and talking jumpseat refusal is because you are simply taking without giving... ALPA has done more for jumpseat privileges than anyone. The jumpseat program wouldn't be were it is today if it wasn't for ALPA.

Hours after 9/11 when the industry leaders where on a conference call with DOT secretery Mineta, someone said..there goes the jumpseat! Gone forwever! The ALPA president stopped the unilateral removal of all jumpseating and kept it intact for online pilots only. From there with coordnidation with others (teamwork) we were able to get CASS.

WHAT HAVE THE SKYW PILOTS done to help the jumpseat program????? You can't even host a jumpseat conference... who is going to pay for it? SAPA?


What are you doing to contribute to:

Secondary cockpit barriers

MANPADS

Foreign Control

TransNational Carriers

FFDO

BK Legislation reform

FMLA legilsation for crews

Dedicated secuirty crew access (No TSA)

Runway incursions

ASAP

FOQA

Appendix F training

Contam runway

Pension reform

Accident/incident investigations
​

ALL YOU GUYS DO IS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE WORK THAT ALPA AND OTHER CARRIERS DO TO MAKE THIS JOB A PROFESSION. SO CONSIDER THAT WHEN AN ALPA PILOT DOESN'T WANT A FREELOADER ON HIS JUMPSEAT.

With that said, I'll still take you on my jumpseat. YOu might not like the conversation... but I'll take you...

 

[BE90flyer]

I think all of my former FOs would disagree with that assessment. Couldn't be further from the truth. However, I do think it's extremely important to protect Captain's authority. Guys like you have sat on your ass and not said anything as companies continue to strip away Captain's authority bit by bit. It's a major problem.

How has the big bad corporations taken away your rights as a Captain? IT IS NOT YOUR AIRPLANE; IT IS NOT YOUR JUMPSEAT. The company you work owns or at least has rights to that airplane. You can deny anyone because of safety reasons, and that’s it.

If the person is black, brown, democrat, republican, Christian, atheist, ugly, union or anti-union doesn’t give you a right to deny that person a jumpseat.

Come on PCL admit it, you don’t like flying an airplane. You like being a airline captain. The captain of the ship as I know you tell your friends. I can just imagine in your sleep saying over and over again “with great powers comes great responsibility"

Yes, PCL its people like you that brings down the airline profession.

 

[BE90flyer]

Wrong! Being a SKYW pilot is supporting totalitarianism. No vote, no choice, no input, no nothing. Jerry speaks... you move. How fast is detrermined by Jerry. It would be more difficult more me to look at my wife if my boss treated me like this...

ALPA is a democracy.. one can be as involved in the direction of thier career. Same with our gov't. Want to run for congress? Be president... all possible..

The reason why guys are pissed about you guys and talking jumpseat refusal is because you are simply taking without giving... ALPA has done more for jumpseat privileges than anyone. The jumpseat program wouldn't be were it is today if it wasn't for ALPA.

Hours after 9/11 when the industry leaders where on a conference call with DOT secretery Mineta, someone said..there goes the jumpseat! Gone forwever! The ALPA president stopped the unilateral removal of all jumpseating and kept it intact for online pilots only. From there with coordnidation with others (teamwork) we were able to get CASS.

WHAT HAVE THE SKYW PILOTS done to help the jumpseat program????? You can't even host a jumpseat conference... who is going to pay for it? SAPA?


What are you doing to contribute to:

Secondary cockpit barriers​

MANPADS​

Foreign Control​

TransNational Carriers​

FFDO​

BK Legislation reform​

FMLA legilsation for crews​

Dedicated secuirty crew access (No TSA)​

Runway incursions​

ASAP​

FOQA​

Appendix F training​

Contam runway​

Pension reform​

Accident/incident investigations​

ALL YOU GUYS DO IS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE WORK THAT ALPA AND OTHER CARRIERS DO TO MAKE THIS JOB A PROFESSION. SO CONSIDER THAT WHEN AN ALPA PILOT DOESN'T WANT A FREELOADER ON HIS JUMPSEAT.

With that said, I'll still take you on my jumpseat. YOu might not like the conversation... but I'll take you...

So Rez when is a privately held company a democracy? Shouldn’t Jerry be able to run his company as he sees fit? What gives you the right to tell a privately held company how much to pay his employees.

Why does an ALPA pilot want a freeloader on his jumpseat????? Again its not his jumpseat. Other then safety reasons, you have no right to deny anyone. I mean come on if I could ban anyone from the jumpseat I would ban Ugly men. Then how would you and PCL get to work??? Think about that.

 

[PCL_128]

How has the big bad corporations taken away your rights as a Captain? IT IS NOT YOUR AIRPLANE; IT IS NOT YOUR JUMPSEAT.

The jumpseat belongs to the Captain. Period.

The company you work owns or at least has rights to that airplane. You can deny anyone because of safety reasons, and that’s it.

The FAA would disagree with your assessment. The Captain has the right to deny a jumpseater for any reason he chooses, safety or not.

 

[timmay]

Wrong! Being a SKYW pilot is supporting totalitarianism. No vote, no choice, no input, no nothing. Jerry speaks... you move. How fast is detrermined by Jerry. It would be more difficult more me to look at my wife if my boss treated me like this...

ALPA is a democracy.. one can be as involved in the direction of thier career. Same with our gov't. Want to run for congress? Be president... all possible..

The reason why guys are pissed about you guys and talking jumpseat refusal is because you are simply taking without giving... ALPA has done more for jumpseat privileges than anyone. The jumpseat program wouldn't be were it is today if it wasn't for ALPA.

Hours after 9/11 when the industry leaders where on a conference call with DOT secretery Mineta, someone said..there goes the jumpseat! Gone forwever! The ALPA president stopped the unilateral removal of all jumpseating and kept it intact for online pilots only. From there with coordnidation with others (teamwork) we were able to get CASS.

WHAT HAVE THE SKYW PILOTS done to help the jumpseat program????? You can't even host a jumpseat conference... who is going to pay for it? SAPA?


What are you doing to contribute to:

Secondary cockpit barriers​

MANPADS​

Foreign Control​

TransNational Carriers​

FFDO​

BK Legislation reform​

FMLA legilsation for crews​

Dedicated secuirty crew access (No TSA)​

Runway incursions​

ASAP​

FOQA​

Appendix F training​

Contam runway​

Pension reform​

Accident/incident investigations​

ALL YOU GUYS DO IS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE WORK THAT ALPA AND OTHER CARRIERS DO TO MAKE THIS JOB A PROFESSION. SO CONSIDER THAT WHEN AN ALPA PILOT DOESN'T WANT A FREELOADER ON HIS JUMPSEAT.

With that said, I'll still take you on my jumpseat. YOu might not like the conversation... but I'll take you...

WOW if those are APLA's top priorities there really is no hope for this profession.

 

[SERPICO]

Wrong! Being a SKYW pilot is supporting totalitarianism.

ALPA is a democracy..

With that said, I'll still take you on my jumpseat. YOu might not like the conversation... but I'll take you...

I asked on another thread how democratic a closed shop is. You should look up totalitarianism. You are free to leave SkyWest but it looks like you are not free to use your own mind. My union view doe's not matter, but why should we all be pro-ALPA.
Did you really enter this profession because you knew when you grew up that you would be in a union.

Keep your views out of the office and do your job. After all it is ALPA that preaches safety.
I am sure you're a big man in the cockpit with your jumpseat, why don't you walk up a B6 pilot on your next day off and tell him what you think..... show us tough you really are. You bash guys like this when several of them are furloughed drivers.
Get old....and retire, PLEASE!

 

[antisocialist]

Name a democracy with compulsory membership and compulsory financial contribution. The Republican Party can't force me to send them money. Neither can the ACLU. A church cannot force me to send them a tithe. Even most taxes cannot be forcibly withdrawn from your paycheck. But union dues can. AOPA accomplishes more without forcible membership. How can such force be democratic?

I begged for the job at my airline. So did you at yours. I said to them, "If you pay me what you promise to pay me, I will do what you tell me to do." That is what a job is. Freedom means I could have chosen another airline, or another profession. Freedom means I could do so at any time.

All of these things that you have attributed to ALPA occur freely in non-union industries. Without unions, how did the overwhelming majority of the non-union private sector acheive such a high standard of living?

 

[SERPICO]

This is how it works with present ALPA representation:
"Welcome to this great place (actually it sux, but we can make it great), you are now all members, but you only have the choice to leave us, not to join us. Leave and you are now marked for life".
Charming democracy there.
Kinda like screening your calls?