ALPA: Time to learn from this vote.

[PCL_128]

Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is....... Everything about your career up till this point has been "self-serving".... You don't go from Gulfstream to Pinnacle to Air Tran to "better the profession".......

Like I said, John, already answered that in a previous thread. And you can still go fu&* yourself.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Like I said, John, already answered that in a previous thread. And you can still go fu&* yourself.

Another impressive retort from the ALPA cheerleader section.....

Face it PCL..... you like the majority of people in this career do what is best for themselves...... You did what was best for you, not necessarily what was best for the profession....

 

[ATR Pirate]

hey john pennekamp

SkyWest pilots, don't be asking for our UNION PILOT jumpseats, and good luck moving on to a UNION mainline carrier.

hey john, don't let me catch you trying to ride a jumpseat on one our (SKYWEST) 2000+ flights a day to almost every state on the continent either...i'm sure our airline has more destinations than yours..and if you keep making threats like that, everyone is going to know your name...

And i know personally tons of guys leaving for Southwest, Delta, United...plenty of union carriers..we've been NON union for over 35 years, and never had problems getting hired other places...haha you're an idiot dude..

 

[ATR Pirate]

JP..... this is exactly the attitude that is killing ALPA....

Skywest pilots are all welcome on my jumpseat.....

JP if I find out you are denying Skywest pilots, then you will not ride my jumpseat, and I know who you are.....

Blame ALPA for being a total failure rather than the Skywest pilots.....

For those of you who don't know JP, he was a member of the ASA MEC..... the second most number of votes belonged to him...... Would you want him speaking on your behalf????

yeah you're right JOE..ASA pilots are all welcome on my (skywest) jumpseats anytime...Blame Alpa because they suck...jumpseats are for everyone..one jumpseat denial at a time can screw you, and your airline friends from riding on a carrier..i'd watch out JP..

 

[OUPilot01]

.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ATR pirate.. ALPA will continue to protect the jumpseat so that you may use it....

 

[John Pennekamp]

yeah you're right JOE..ASA pilots are all welcome on my (skywest) jumpseats anytime...Blame Alpa because they suck...jumpseats are for everyone..one jumpseat denial at a time can screw you, and your airline friends from riding on a carrier..i'd watch out JP..

Ooooh I'm so scared. And when did FOs start approving jumpseats anyhow? Maybe you should just shut up, do your paperwork, and go get your captain his coffee, not make threats you can't back up, big FO man.

 

[N2264J]

Re: ALPA: Time to learn from this vote

I would think the intelligent, objective Skywest pilots would realize using the Airways East/West integration as an example of a "failure" by ALPA National is flawed and misleading at its very best...especially considering the biggie of the last decade (scope).

That wasn't the point I'm trying to make. ALPA's decision to uphold the abitration award was fair and right in my view.

But you are correct, the US Airways pilot's bad behavior is connected at the hip with scope.

After the East pilots imposed their will on the Piedmont, Alleghany and PSA pilots via scope, (contract within a contract, slotted bidding, diversion of growth jet aircraft from Alleghany/Piedmont), they recoil in horror when they don't get their way and start a decertification drive. Ironic, no?

US Airways is one of the big players in ALPA. You don't see why a relatively small pilot group would exercise extreme caution when considering bringing ALPA on to their property?

 

[10nCLR]

SkyWest pilots, don't be asking for our UNION PILOT jumpseats, and good luck moving on to a UNION mainline carrier.

John, just wondering if you will let a non-union dispatcher sit in your "Union" jumpseat? Just curious.

 

[flyboy06]

Unions are more effective the more afraid they are of their workforce. That's why ALPA doesn't respond as quickly to the problems at the regional level -- we're not that scary. It's why all us "union sympathizers" should consider right-to-work rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work#Economic_information

John you might want to do some fact checking before you post your BS...

Railway and airline employees are not protected by state Right to Work laws.

Under the RLA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.

Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an "agency fee.")

http://www.nrtw.org/a/a_1_r.htm

 

[CopilotDoug]

What do the SKYW pilots do?

Get their own Union!

On the one hand you admit that ALPA trying to represent the interests of every airline "is what it is." So your solution is to accept this and move forward? A reality check will show that is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The different pilot groups will never come together under that banner---it is what it is. You can only influence what goes on in your own airline...so leave it at that and form your own Union. And what better model to follow than SWAPA? I'm not anti-Union...I'm anti-ALPA. Good luck to all those saving the jumpseat for ALPA pilots only.

Now you can proceed to tell me to go read a book called flying the line with a bunch of BS that applied in the 30s and 40s and when your dinosaur of a Union was really needed. Or you can use some more scare tactics about jungle laws and why we won't survive without ALPA...

 

[CopilotDoug]

Interesting that you have now chosen to reference the FAA Aviation Instructors Handbook for professionalism...

1. Most Aviation Instructors are not members of a union..... Neither are Doctors or Lawyers..... Therefor we have now established that you do not need to be a member of a union to be a professional, even though that is the point you are trying to make......

Nicely put, Joe.

 

[CopilotDoug]

If the NTSB giving a blushing seal approval isn't enough then I don't know what is...

Typical bureaucratic B.S.

Just another Dog and Pony show...

 

[John Pennekamp]

John, just wondering if you will let a non-union dispatcher sit in your "Union" jumpseat? Just curious.

All of our dispatchers at ASA are union (PAFCA), and only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat, so no.

 

[homerjdispatch]

All of our dispatchers at ASA are union (PAFCA), and only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat, so no.

so john, You arent going to allow Union dispatchers from other companies in your jumpseat? Why have a CASS system and allow dispatchers in it? What about Delta dispatchers? Are they welcome in "your" jumpseat?

 

[10nCLR]

All of our dispatchers at ASA are union (PAFCA), and only company dispatchers are welcome on my jumpseat, so no.

John, so you are saying that you need a CASS system that differentiates between Union and non Union members. So you would deny me a jumpseat just because I am not in a Union. That's hilariously asinie.

 

[Beach Boy]

Professionalism

Remarks of

Robert Sumwalt, Vice Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board
to the Air Line Pilots Association
International Pilots Assistance Forum
April 11, 2007
Denver, Colorado​

 

[PCL_128]

Get their own Union!

They can't afford it, and they don't have the experience to make it effective.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You non-union Skywest dispatchers and pilots are welcome on my ASA jumpseat...... In fact you get a spot ahead of JP because you can actually think for yourself and aren't afraid to question the union thugs..... Welcome aboard.......

 

[Nevets]

From June/July 2006 Airline Pilot

Rumors have been circulating about some ALPA pilots refusing to allow jumpseaters from select non-ALPA and low-cost airlines. Please do not let politics into the jumpseat. While you might feel good about having denied a jumpseater from a non-ALPA or low-cost airline, your ALPA brothers and sisters might be denied a much needed jumpseat on one of those airlines commuting to or from their base. Your actions can have implications far beyond the immediate situation. Also, ALPA's long-term goal is to represent the entire airline piloting profession--and that means every one of us is a field organizer for our union. A jumpseat is one more opportunity to educate and influence our non-ALPA brothers and sisters.--Second Officer Dan Gradwohl (Northwest), Chairman, ALPA National Jumpseat Comittee

AND

ALPA Reasserts Policy on Jumpseat Restrictions

During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.

"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."

ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.

"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable asset."

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