ALPA: Time to learn from this vote.

[Speedtape]

JP..... this is exactly the attitude that is killing ALPA....

Skywest pilots are all welcome on my jumpseat.....

JP if I find out you are denying Skywest pilots, then you will not ride my jumpseat, and I know who you are.....

Blame ALPA for being a total failure rather than the Skywest pilots.....

For those of you who don't know JP, he was a member of the ASA MEC..... the second most number of votes belonged to him...... Would you want him speaking on your behalf????

The answer to your question is YES.

He attended more than one meeting and didn't turn his back on the pilots or ALPA.

I blame you for part of the ALPA problem--QUITTER!

 

[CopilotDoug]

Nope... not at all....

But I am going to call them out when some of us are working our tails off the protect and promote this profession and others (SKYW pilots and many ALPA pilots) sit around and make excuses and then chide the very protection they scoff...

The idea of promoting and protecting the profession on the whole is a joke. All you can do is protect and promote your career at your carrier. This feel good idea of mainline pilots holding hands with regional pilots in a singing circle is a pipe dream. Pilots will listen to ALPA when mainline takes action in the interest of the feeders.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

I think I got it...

The problem with JP isn't that he doesn't like SkyWest pilots, loves unionism, thinks people take him seriously, has relations with a contract, is pissed about 1.95%, or loves spending time here to no effect.

It's penis envy--you can see somebody about that.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The idea of promoting and protecting the profession on the whole is a joke. All you can do is protect and promote your career at your carrier.

THis does of course fit your selfish actions....

This feel good idea of mainline pilots holding hands with regional pilots in a singing circle is a pipe dream. Pilots will listen to ALPA when mainline takes action in the interest of the feeders.

More misunderstanding... but nonetheless you want to go to a major?

It is not about mainline and regionals... get it out of your head...

What about ALPA's effort to make the FMLA law applicalbe to pilots?

ALPA's FFDO testimony last week in Congress.

ALPA's efforts to reform BK abuse... (yes it involves you)

ALPA's observer position at ICAO.

the list goes on... but you don't want to talk about these benefits that you enjoy... you don't want to talk about the freeloading... you just need to villianize and make it out to be a major vs regional... but lets go there.... are you working with the DAL and UAL pilots? Well are you?


Also noted is how you quickly switched from the point that some of us are working out tails off to protect the profession while SKYW freeloads... you quickly make into a major vs. regional issues... which is really a "there is nothing in it for me... so forget ALPA"

I am talking about guys who give up family time at their ALPA carriers to make the profession better for themselves and for SKYW pilots and you can't even discuss the issue head on....

 

[Soverytired]

THe question is.... are there pilots with enough courage and character to step up to theplate and use the ALPA resource to get it done?

Any one out there with courage.... or are you just waiting for the ALPA fairy to come by and make your life wonderful....

That's a first class cop-out.

ALPA gets great contract at Mesa = God Bless ALPA.

ALPA doesn't get great contract = Pilots a Mesa failed ALPA.

That said, I hope they DO bargain hard, picket hard, and strike the second they're released to do so. And if they have to sit by and watch ALPA steal the credit for their hard work, it's a small price to pay. (if they do it . . and here's to hoping)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That's a first class cop-out.

Why?

ALPA gets great contract at Mesa = God Bless ALPA.

ALPA doesn't get great contract = Pilots a Mesa failed ALPA.

No... again you guys look at it from the worng angle.. the ME angle..it isn't about you...

That said, I hope they DO bargain hard, picket hard, and strike the second they're released to do so. And if they have to sit by and watch ALPA steal the credit for their hard work, it's a small price to pay. (if they do it . . and here's to hoping)

Instead of hoping THEY.. why do you help out and make it WE....

 

[N2264J]

Re: ALPA: Time to learn from this vote

ALPA gets great contract at Mesa = God Bless ALPA.

ALPA doesn't get great contract = Pilots a Mesa failed ALPA.

The rancor and contempt from ALPA operatives on here is just amazing to me - from the very people who say they're trying to entice by claiming ALPA is such a great deal.

No matter how slick the sales pitch, if ALPA was as good as they say, you'd have a hard time keeping pilots groups from clamoring to get in. Currently, US Airway pilots, one of the elephants, are doing a decertification drive because they're not going to get their way in what appears to be a fair arbitration. You think Skywest pilots didn't notice that behavior?

The vote didn't go their way so the ALPA soldiers have been leveling empty threats at the Skywest pilots with verbal insults, potential jumpseat wars and, my favorite, blackballing from "major" carrier hiring (although managements everywhere could not care less about an internal union dispute).

You ALPA sycophats realize that Colgan and Skywest pilots can actually read everything you write on here, don't you?

You look silly trying to sell ALPA's "democracy" while simultaneously ridiculing the prospective pilot groups when they exercise their democratic perogative.

It speaks volumes but it's not the message you want to send.

 

[strega7]

What about ALPA's effort to make the FMLA law applicalbe to pilots?

Could you give us more information about this? At SkyWest our pilots have access to it but I know the ALPA represented Alaska pilots do not. Is that what your talking about?

An honest thank you.

 

[BoilerUP]

Currently, US Airway pilots, one of the elephants, are doing a decertification drive because they're not going to get their way in what appears to be a fair arbitration.

It was a fair arbitration, by a neutral arbitrator that the AAA MEC agreed to. ALPA National can't help it that the East MEC (and evidently many in the East pilot group) had the unreasonable, untenable, and immovable expectation of seniority integration by DOH. Throwing out ALPA might make them feel better by taking their anger of unmet career expectations out on somebody else, but it won't change the facts and circumstances relating to the Nicolau award...or its outcome.

You think Skywest pilots didn't notice that behavior?

I would think the intelligent, objective Skywest pilots would realize using the Airways East/West integration as an example of a "failure" by ALPA National is flawed and misleading at its very best...especially considering the biggie of the last decade (scope).

 

[CopilotDoug]

THis does of course fit your selfish actions....

Get real dude, NOBODY does anything unless it benefits them in one way or another. Alot like ALPA...

More misunderstanding... but nonetheless you want to go to a major?

It is not about mainline and regionals... get it out of your head....

Ohh, but it is. Regional crews want the pay and schedules that the majors enjoy, plain and simple.

What about ALPA's effort to make the FMLA law applicalbe to pilots?

ALPA's FFDO testimony last week in Congress.

ALPA's efforts to reform BK abuse... (yes it involves you)

ALPA's observer position at ICAO.

the list goes on... but you don't want to talk about these benefits that you enjoy... you don't want to talk about the freeloading... you just need to villianize and make it out to be a major vs regional... but lets go there.... are you working with the DAL and UAL pilots? Well are you?

How about ALPA address pay and schedules before this other stuff??? Short enough to the point for ya?

Also noted is how you quickly switched from the point that some of us are working out tails off to protect the profession while SKYW freeloads... you quickly make into a major vs. regional issues... which is really a "there is nothing in it for me... so forget ALPA"....

Does it upset you that SKYW is "freeloading" off your hard work? The fact of the matter is that all of these other topics you ramble on about are really just minutiae in the big picture. How many people leave the airlines because of the FMLA, abuse of bankruptcy laws, or FFDO issues? Now how many leave because of s*it pay and crap schedules??? Stick to the topic. Now why don't YOU stick to the topic?

I am talking about guys who give up family time at their ALPA carriers to make the profession better for themselves and for SKYW pilots and you can't even discuss the issue head on....

Good, your gold star is in the mail.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Get real dude, NOBODY does anything unless it benefits them in one way or another. Alot like ALPA...

No...allot like ALPA members... if you want the law of the jungle man go for it... but I don't think you'll survive..none of us will...

Ohh, but it is. Regional crews want the pay and schedules that the majors enjoy, plain and simple.

And how are they going to get that?

How about ALPA address pay and schedules before this other stuff??? Short enough to the point for ya?

Its called situational awareness... you can focus on one thing but the rest of the stuff will bite you.

Does it upset you that SKYW is "freeloading" off your hard work? The fact of the matter is that all of these other topics you ramble on about are really just minutiae in the big picture. How many people leave the airlines because of the FMLA, abuse of bankruptcy laws, or FFDO issues? Now how many leave because of s*it pay and crap schedules??? Stick to the topic. Now why don't YOU stick to the topic?

This is the mindset of someone who views flying jets as a job and not a professsion...

Good, your gold star is in the mail.

Its all about looking in the mirror... the problem is guys like take a look and feel good about just having a job...

 

[BoilerUP]

ALPA cannot secure mainline pay, workrules and schedules.

Only a unified pilot group can do that.

 

[CopilotDoug]

ALPA cannot secure mainline pay, workrules and schedules.

Only a unified pilot group can do that.

By unified, do you mean ALL pilot groups acting as a whole? If so, I do agree. Is this a realistic option?

Rez, you say situational awareness...I call it prioritizing.

 

[Goose Egg]

If the sentiments expressed on Flight Info were the prevailing sentiment of the actual pilot population, SkyWest, and Colgan would both be ALPA. This board
predominatly is a union sympathizing, out of touch minority. Come here for entertainment not facts!

That fact is starting to dawn on me.

-Goose

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

By unified, do you mean ALL pilot groups acting as a whole? If so, I do agree. Is this a realistic option?

Well, why not ask the profession what you can do to help?

Rez, you say situational awareness...I call it prioritizing.

Respectfully, I've been doing profession work for 10 years..... you have no clue what you are talking about... what you are talking about it is YOU. Self serving you.

You want these things but you have no idea how to go about getting it done.... And I can tell you with your mindset you would do more damage than good.

As I said above... do something for the profession. Help out. Learn how the political side to all of this works... it takes time... but hopefully sooner than later you can be effective... good luck.. we are all counting on you...

 

[jea]

No...allot like ALPA members... if you want the law of the jungle man go for it... but I don't think you'll survive..none of us will...





And how are they going to get that?



Its called situational awareness... you can focus on one thing but the rest of the stuff will bite you.





This is the mindset of someone who views flying jets as a job and not a professsion...




Its all about looking in the mirror... the problem is guys like take a look and feel good about just having a job...

for someone who hates the me me me mindset of some people you sure look in the mirror alot... are you really that impressed with yourself that you are a professional and we are not?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

for someone who hates the me me me mindset of some people you sure look in the mirror alot... are you really that impressed with yourself that you are a professional and we are not?

I am only a professional because I belong to an organization that has a code of ethics, has an industry respected safety and engineering dept. and I have the ability address grievences... a fundamental right of workers in this country...

SKYW pilots could have had all that... but they don't care... at least the 66%Klub doesn't...

 

[jea]

So.... and correct me if im wrong (because I'm sure you will) Though we have training, testing, and checkrides- as do you.. because we are not part of a Big kids club we are not professionals? I talk with my boss when I have issues. I dont run to a middle man. I dont always get the response I want- do you? do UsAir guys? do Mesa guys? How about ASA guys- do they all agree with you? nope. Are they professionals because of the club? no. They are professionals because they take pride in their work. They do a good job (most). We at SkyWest (most) take pride in our work. We are as professional as a group this large can be.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Respectfully, I've been doing profession work for 10 years...

And we salute you

you have no clue what you are talking about... what you are talking about it is YOU. Self serving you. You want these things but you have no idea how to go about getting it done.... And I can tell you with your mindset you would do more damage than good..

If it were coming from anyone but you, Rez, I might have considered it a valid point. But coming from a member of a castrated Union which is more concerned about its credibility on Capitol Hill than its membership...I will consider the source and hope that someday you will open your eyes and see ALPA for the laughing stock that it is. Good luck to AAA in getting ALPA decertified

 

[CopilotDoug]

and I have the ability address grievences... a fundamental right of workers in this country...

That's a joke. As Orenstein would say: Go ahead and grieve it, we'll get to it when it's convenient for us.