Rah To Fly For Midwest Express

[jws717]

This is like Goat Jet part deux. Just union busting at its worst.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Republic is replacing Midwest 717's with 170's. Midwest pays its pilots more than double what Republic pays its pilots. These are just things to think about. I do no blame the Republic pilots, but the way this industry is going, there will be no good jobs to go to. There will be 5-10 year first officers at Republic just like Eagle and Comair. These f/o's better learn how to live indefinitely on $37/hour. This is a whipsaw. There are no two ways about it. It seems like good news that Republic will avoid some furloughs, but these pilots will pay dearly for it long term.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I can live off of, 20k a year as it is now. J/K! Seriously, I could do it, but do I want to? Do I think it's right? NO! The post before mine is absolutely correct. F/O's need to quit looking at how much they'll make at upgrade because this slow down is going to create some long waiting times to make CA. We need to get at least 40-50k for F/O's and I'd say 80-120k for CA's minimum.

 

[Moustache]

Despite all this, "We don't like this at all.." you know come October RAH pilots will be replacing the midwest planes.

The pilots will be replacing the planes?.....what is happening to this industry, won't they get frostbitten?

 

[Moustache]

Republic is replacing Midwest 717's with 170's. Midwest pays its pilots more than double what Republic pays its pilots. These are just things to think about. I do no blame the Republic pilots, but the way this industry is going, there will be no good jobs to go to. There will be 5-10 year first officers at Republic just like Eagle and Comair. These f/o's better learn how to live indefinitely on $37/hour. This is a whipsaw. There are no two ways about it. It seems like good news that Republic will avoid some furloughs, but these pilots will pay dearly for it long term.

Some other airline will do something worse and you will forget about this........welcome to the U.S. attention span

 

[Flyerdan]

I can live off of, 20k a year as it is now. J/K! Seriously, I could do it, but do I want to? Do I think it's right? NO! The post before mine is absolutely correct. F/O's need to quit looking at how much they'll make at upgrade because this slow down is going to create some long waiting times to make CA. We need to get at least 40-50k for F/O's and I'd say 80-120k for CA's minimum.

I've been thinking that it would be wise to have a good supplemental income source. Something that could be turned into a primary career if the airline career continues to decline.

Anyone have good solid suggestions along this line? I am thinking about real-estate agent, Edward Jones financial services, insurance industry, etc. Anyone had any success in any of these areas or others?

 

[BoilerUP]

Anyone have good solid suggestions along this line? I am thinking about real-estate agent, Edward Jones financial services, insurance industry, etc. Anyone had any success in any of these areas or others?

The first two options (real estate and financial services) aren't doing real hot right now.

Insurance, on the other hand, is pretty much "recession-proof"...you gotta have it by law. The downside is there are more underwriters and more agents competing for business, driving down premiums AND commissions.

A trade, such as electrical, plumbing, roofing, HVAC, auto repair, etc. would probably be a better bet long-term...but you'd have to be willing to get a little dirty.

 

[flylike44]

I have a question for you RAH guys.

Management at SkyW has said that if there is a Midwest strike; we will honor them and not fly as well. Will you do the same?

Also I read on the forum today that we will be losing a few of our routes to you for Midwest. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm really glad that B*dford whor*d himself out to get this flying. I just hope that you people have the backbone to do the right thing.

there's a clause in our contract that prevents us from flying any struck work. how about your contract? ooops! my bad....

 

[Minimaniac]

I'm really glad that B*dford whor*d himself out to get this flying. I just hope that you people have the backbone to do the right thing.

Do you seriously think that bedford whorrrred HIMSELF out? The man is just playing a game. All the other airlines are just players at the poker table. He plays to win, and he wants to win the table he is at. Bedford has his sights on the big boy table. If he takes out some of the weaker players now, he just may get invited to play in the back room, where the brandy comes in real crystal snifters, and the cigars are Cuban. Us pilots, and the airplanes we fly, are just chips in his stack. He has no problem throwing a few away here and there, but make no mistake, his stack is growing as other stacks are shrinking. With this Mdwest deal, he has basically put Midwest "all in". He's thrown 12 airplanes into the pot, as well as countless token pilots, to force Midwest's hand.

It's not whorring if you are having fun... and bedford is having a blast.

 

[DOVPILOT]

Do you seriously think that bedford whorrrred HIMSELF out? YES I DO

It's not whorring if you are having fun... and uke: bedford is having a blast.

hahahahaha real nice

 

[nerjdriver]

there's a clause in our contract that prevents us from flying any struck work. how about your contract? ooops! my bad....

Doesn't your contract also have scope which prevents your airplanes being flown by other pilot groups. Now maybe I'm just hearing things but down the road these mighty E-170s will be flown by Midwest pilots. oops! my bad...

 

[DOVPILOT]

Do you seriously think that bedford whorrrred HIMSELF out? The man is just playing a game. All the other airlines are just players at the poker table. He plays to win, and he wants to win the table he is at. Bedford has his sights on the big boy table. If he takes out some of the weaker players now, he just may get invited to play in the back room, where the brandy comes in real crystal snifters, and the cigars are Cuban. Us pilots, and the airplanes we fly, are just chips in his stack. He has no problem throwing a few away here and there, but make no mistake, his stack is growing as other stacks are shrinking. With this Mdwest deal, he has basically put Midwest "all in". He's thrown 12 airplanes into the pot, as well as countless token pilots, to force Midwest's hand.

It's not whorring if you are having fun... and bedford is having a blast.

Better re-check your specs RW FO A. Taylor # 24 in KPHL. You have no idea what the F'ck you're talking about. You make it sound as though BB wants to rule the world, and hang out with mobsters. To say this at the expense of another pilot group, who are trying to feed their families, is appalling.

 

[Minimaniac]

No offense intended...I am not sure you quite understood what i was trying to say, because i do not quite understand your response. If I didn't get my point across clearly, then my bad. Poor communication on my part.

I was trying to refute a previous post that claimed Bedford was whorring himself out. I am not a member of the koolaid club, but I thought that the whorring comment was a bit unjustified. That aside, I do get the impression from most executive types that all of business is a game. Bedford does not need to earn another penny for the rest of his life. He does not NEED his job. He has shown his disrespect for the well being of the pilot group by blatantly disregarding the contract that he himself agreed to (employee stock program, bypass, displacement vacancies, etc). Since he is not doing this job to feed his family anymore, and he is not doing it to improve the position of his employees, I can only conclude that he is either after personal prestige or just in it for sport. Like a friendly game of poker, bedford does not have much at stake. If all goes well, he makes even more money. if all goes to pot, then he goes home and lives well off the winnings he already made. My career, livelihood, and economic viability are at stake, and I do resent the ethical predicament he has put us in while investing nothing personally himself. We at RAH stand to lose greatly from the Midwest deal. If the deal is upheld in the courts, then we are scum in the eyes of our peers. If the deal does not go through, more people will end up on the streets.

 

[BigLebowski]

there's a clause in our contract that prevents us from flying any struck work. how about your contract? ooops! my bad....

deep breath, sigh...

do you really want me to get into this whole debate. I used to work for a union carrier. It was so funny because the company would always break the Mighty contract (which i know is so impossible) and tell us to grieve it.

Here at SkyW, I've never had the company intentionally break any of our policies, and if they do unintentionally; it's fixed right away...no grievance needed.

BTW how's your profit sharing, and stock options over there at RAH?

 

[BigLebowski]

p.s. i went to church with jerry last sunday, and the priest told us that bedford was condemned to h*ll.

 

[Captain Morgan]

p.s. i went to church with jerry last sunday, and the priest told us that bedford was condemned to h*ll.

Was that before or after you, Jerry, and the priest had a threesome?

 

[rogerwilcoout]

deep breath, sigh...

do you really want me to get into this whole debate. I used to work for a union carrier. It was so funny because the company would always break the Mighty contract (which i know is so impossible) and tell us to grieve it.

Here at SkyW, I've never had the company intentionally break any of our policies, and if they do unintentionally; it's fixed right away...no grievance needed.

BTW how's your profit sharing, and stock options over there at RAH?

You might want to get off your high horse slick. You are flying jets. You are flying jets that should be flown by mainline (arent we all nowadays?) What makes it even worse is that you are flying jets that should be flown by mainline guys AND you are not union. Ugly ugly ugly combo. I know what that makes you and guys like you in my book.

 

[BigLebowski]

You might want to get off your high horse slick. You are flying jets. You are flying jets that should be flown by mainline (arent we all nowadays?) What makes it even worse is that you are flying jets that should be flown by mainline guys AND you are not union. Ugly ugly ugly combo. I know what that makes you and guys like you in my book.

No high horse...why don't you get off yours. You wanna rip about not being union? Go ahead...we're a successful company doing well and generally pretty happy here.

What is it you are doing that is any different than SkyWest? Oh yeah that's right...you bought flying and assisted management in putting a gun to the heads of union workers. Taking more routes from union and non-union workers.

Kudos to Bedford and Teamsters.

-Slick

 

[BigLebowski]

Oh yeah that's right...you bought flying and assisted management in putting a gun to the heads of union workers. Taking more routes from union and non-union workers.

If this is what we call that "union brotherhood" Who needs enemies.

-Slick (again)

 

[nerjdriver]

You might want to get off your high horse slick. You are flying jets. You are flying jets that should be flown by mainline (arent we all nowadays?) What makes it even worse is that you are flying jets that should be flown by mainline guys AND you are not union. Ugly ugly ugly combo. I know what that makes you and guys like you in my book.

I am enjoying this way too much. The ignorance is pouring from your numerous threads and you contradict yourself over and over. What great fodder! What has the union done for YOU? Last I checked the mighty contract you are so proud of does not have 100% deadhead pay, pay rates on a 70 seat airplane less than that of a 50 seat operator (which shall remain nameless ), management that fires probationary FOs instead of furloughing with , a QOL that is good compared to Trans States or Go Jet, a union that has made it clear it has no intention of holding up your CBA with its regards to scope, a contract which under its different subsidiaries really pushes the definition of a seniority based contract, and this is just what I can think of off the top of my head. So why is being non-union so bad? Im in ALPA, have a great contract......GREAT! But I think we could do better with our guys running an internal union, like at oh say...SkyWest, Southwest, Frontier and the likes. Oddly, with the exception of Frontier, these companies have done quite well, and have provided pilots a fair wage and QOL......can we say the same for the teamsters...I think not. Remember this is the union that represents our pals at GoJet too!

But I digress.............

This thread is about a pilot group willing and wantingly to be used as the bullet in the heads of Midwest pilots. Nothing more. Time will tell if RAH pilots stand on principle, but after reading the posts of your coworkers on this thread I think we ALL have our answer.

RANT OVER

 

[Popeye0537]

It's called a Bonus, BiG L we don't profit share. But let me know how big yours is gonna be now that SkyW's losing routes.

As for you Nerjdriver, You have a great contract? LOL give me a break. 145/ALPA....I'm thinkin ExpressJet? How much deadheading you doin lately....probably a bunch now going out to Cali to pick up those dormant A/C. I deadhead at the most 3 times a month and get 75% pay, not great but something to bring up in negotiations. As for pay, you must be an FO because our captain 70 seat captain rates eclipse all ALPA carriers. (Horizon's represented by Teamsters)

Our management is firing probationary FO's? Try again.

Spew Spew Spew......

 

[USC328]

It's called a Bonus, BiG L we don't profit share. But let me know how big yours is gonna be now that SkyW's losing routes.

Popeye0537,

I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm not sure what all the bickering is about. But in defense of my fellow SkyWest colleage, here is some factual data.

Year To Date:

- Profit Sharing (Bonus) of $3292.86 as a 3rd year CA. That's only 2 of 4 bonus'.

- Made a 23% profit on our last 6 month stock purchase plan.

- Our stock purchase plan for this 6 month period (July 1 - Dec 31) is already up 76%. I invest the full 15%, so about $6,000 per 6 months. Therefore, I've already made $4560 this period if stock stays up.

- Year to date, (pay thru 9-15-08) my W2 is $63,880. I'm not a checkairman and 2 months were on reserve.

SkyWest has 2 Performance Reward benefits. The first one is operational performance based on:

• Completion
• On-Time Departure
• On-Time Arrival
• Mishandled Baggage / 1,000 passengers
• Passenger Experience

The maximum payout is $500 per quarter. Our last quarter paid out over $400.

Our second Performance Reward benefit is the Financial Performance Reward.

To calculate that, you take the employees quarterly gross earnings and multiply it by SkyWest's net margin. My last financial performance reward payout for the 2nd quarter was just over $800.

So, if we lose flying, our financial performance reward may be less, but the operational will not be effected. It's all based on SkyWest's profit margin.

Hope this info helps your argument. Either way, just remember. Try to enjoy what you are doing, take care of the passengers and fly safe.

 

[kf4amu]

Anybody that owns their employer's stock is asking to get wiped out.

Sure it may go up, but its much better to own another company that's just as speculative as an airline that won't go to 0 value if your airline goes bankrupt.

Something to think about.

 

[nerjdriver]

It's called a Bonus, BiG L we don't profit share. But let me know how big yours is gonna be now that SkyW's losing routes.

As for you Nerjdriver, You have a great contract? LOL give me a break. 145/ALPA....I'm thinkin ExpressJet? How much deadheading you doin lately....probably a bunch now going out to Cali to pick up those dormant A/C. I deadhead at the most 3 times a month and get 75% pay, not great but something to bring up in negotiations. As for pay, you must be an FO because our captain 70 seat captain rates eclipse all ALPA carriers. (Horizon's represented by Teamsters)

Our management is firing probationary FO's? Try again.

Spew Spew Spew......

Blah Blah Blah.

145? What does that have to do with my contract. And teamsters...whoa boy! Isn't that the same union that represents the undermining interestes of Uncle Hooley and his croanies at GoJet? 75% DH pay....wow, mine is 100%, Im sure youll be getting more 75% DH pay when you take all of those MIGHTY E170s out to MKE, and hey youll get even more when CAL ends that pathetic existance of a CPA down in IAH and CLE. So you got me there, more DH for you at less pay. Im curious about one thing. I am guessing you interviewed at XJT, but were asked to leave? am I right? And yes, I am a COLLEGE EDUCATED FO, who cares what seat Im in, I can still read a pay scale, and the "mainline aircraft" pay over there at RAH is to say the least pathetic. Take a look at our curret pay scale popeye, not the one on APC. The only thing you eclipse is FO pay at Trans States, and the only 70 seat pay you beat is that of your union bretheren over there at Bl*w Jets.

Fly safe popeye!

 

[BigLebowski]

Anybody that owns their employer's stock is asking to get wiped out.

Sure it may go up, but its much better to own another company that's just as speculative as an airline that won't go to 0 value if your airline goes bankrupt.

Something to think about.

Especially when we're guaranteed 15% profit every six months.

Cough Cough

 

[Captain Morgan]

It's called a Bonus, BiG L we don't profit share. But let me know how big yours is gonna be now that SkyW's losing routes.

Popeye0537,

I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm not sure what all the bickering is about. But in defense of my fellow SkyWest colleage, here is some factual data.

Year To Date:

- Profit Sharing (Bonus) of $3292.86 as a 3rd year CA. That's only 2 of 4 bonus'.

- Made a 23% profit on our last 6 month stock purchase plan.

- Our stock purchase plan for this 6 month period (July 1 - Dec 31) is already up 76%. I invest the full 15%, so about $6,000 per 6 months. Therefore, I've already made $4560 this period if stock stays up.

- Year to date, (pay thru 9-15-08) my W2 is $63,880. I'm not a checkairman and 2 months were on reserve.

SkyWest has 2 Performance Reward benefits. The first one is operational performance based on:

• Completion
• On-Time Departure
• On-Time Arrival
• Mishandled Baggage / 1,000 passengers
• Passenger Experience

The maximum payout is $500 per quarter. Our last quarter paid out over $400.

Our second Performance Reward benefit is the Financial Performance Reward.

To calculate that, you take the employees quarterly gross earnings and multiply it by SkyWest's net margin. My last financial performance reward payout for the 2nd quarter was just over $800.

So, if we lose flying, our financial performance reward may be less, but the operational will not be effected. It's all based on SkyWest's profit margin.

Hope this info helps your argument. Either way, just remember. Try to enjoy what you are doing, take care of the passengers and fly safe.

Don't F with this guy, I know him and he can crunch data like a mainframe!

 

[Popeye0537]

Blah Blah Blah.

145? What does that have to do with my contract. And teamsters...whoa boy! Isn't that the same union that represents the undermining interestes of Uncle Hooley and his croanies at GoJet? 75% DH pay....wow, mine is 100%, Im sure youll be getting more 75% DH pay when you take all of those MIGHTY E170s out to MKE, and hey youll get even more when CAL ends that pathetic existance of a CPA down in IAH and CLE. So you got me there, more DH for you at less pay. Im curious about one thing. I am guessing you interviewed at XJT, but were asked to leave? am I right? And yes, I am a COLLEGE EDUCATED FO, who cares what seat Im in, I can still read a pay scale, and the "mainline aircraft" pay over there at RAH is to say the least pathetic. Take a look at our curret pay scale popeye, not the one on APC. The only thing you eclipse is FO pay at Trans States, and the only 70 seat pay you beat is that of your union bretheren over there at Bl*w Jets.

Fly safe popeye!

Tad bitter aren't we. Nope, I only interviewed at CHQ and Eagle back when you were in high school. For being COLLEGE EDUCATED I think you would have chose a better career. When I went through college flying was still somewhat a respectful place to go but with pukes like yourself not wanting to "pay your dues" this industry has gone down hill. Also being that your still an FO I can almost say for certin that you have just over a year seniority probably with XJET and have no clue where WE at CHQ have come from.

I don't worry about deadhead pay because like I said it equates to one, mabey two flights a month. How about those consessions you will need to take to stay afloat. You can have your 100% deadhead pay....to bad your business model is not sustainable (as your CEO stated)

Looking at your pay rates, your 50 seat captains make $1.30/hr more and your perdiem is $0.05..... and our rates are pathetic??? I'll agree that our FO rates could use a boost and they will get them in the next contract.

I love my "mainline aircraft" and so do the customers, how many pax have you heard say "man these ERJ's are sooooo comfortable."

And lastly, ALPA's a joke. You want to blame the Teamsters for Go Jets? Isn't TSA ALPA?? What happened there? ASA with no contract for over 4 years then sold to a non-union carrier?

Don't be mad at RAH pilots, be mad that your management team has no plans for your success in the future.

 

[USC328]

Anybody that owns their employer's stock is asking to get wiped out.

Sure it may go up, but its much better to own another company that's just as speculative as an airline that won't go to 0 value if your airline goes bankrupt.

Something to think about.

I beg to differ when it comes to SkyWest's stock purchase plan. Allow me to define the program and then give you a realistic example.

There are 2 purchase periods a year. January 1 - June 30 and July 1 - December 31. You have to elect your contribution amounts before a specified deadline which is before the first day of the period. You can contribute a maximum of 15% of your paycheck. There is no dollar amount cap that I am aware of like a 401K. They payroll deduct that amount from each paycheck for the 6 month period. Then, on the last day of the period they take the stock prices on day one and the last day of the period. Comparing the 2, they take the lower price, deduct 15% of that price and buy you your stock for the entire six months at that price.

Now for a real life example. Our first period of 2008. Stock price on January 1, 2008 was $26.85. The price on June 30, 2008 was $12.65. Wow, our stock fell just like everyone else, but I still made a profit. They took a 15% discount off $12.65 and purchased my approximately $6000 dollars worth at $10.75. It takes a day or two until you can sell. By that time, our stock was in the $13 range. I "sold" for a 23% profit even though I was contributing money when it was $26+ per share.

If you hold onto the stock, then yes you could lose. But what I was referring to in THIS period is that the stock will again buy at $10.75 and our price now is $18.57. That is currently a $7.82 profit per share or a 72% profit. Not bad for 6 months. Even if our stock drops to $3.00 on Dec 31, the stock will buy at $2.55 (a 15% discount). You sell it right away at $3.00 when you bought it at $2.55. IMMEDIATE 15% profit.

Now just a little selling info for you. Notice I wrote "sell" above. Well, that is not exactly what I did. If you sell a stock without holding it for at least a year, you will pay your current tax bracket (ie: 25% tax bracket) on the capital gains. If I bought $6000 in stock at $10.75 a share that equals 558.13 shares. I turn and "sell" them at $13.00. The selling value is $7255.81 for a profit of $1255.81. I don't want to lose $313.95 to taxes (25%) so this is what I do.

My wife and I contribute to charitable organizations on our own accord. Instead of giving them cash every month, we make a stock gift every 6 months. The charitable organization is non profit, so they can sell the stock without having to pay capital gains taxes (25% I would have paid). I on the otherhand reimburse myself with the 100% cash value cash I WOULD have given to the charitable organization and get to write off the full gift as a tax write off.

Bingo I get to keep the full $1255.81 profit or approx an extra $209.30 a month income.

Again, don't hold the stock, you may lose. OR hold it like last quarter and sell the stock now at $18.57 and keep the 72% profit. Either way, if you sell or gift right away, you will get at least a 15% profit. It's a win/win situation if you can afford to not have that 15% in each paycheck.

Hope that helps explain SkyWest's stock purchase program. If you have questions, post or PM me. Fly safe!!

 

[jacksjj]

Seriously guys? Seriously? I mean, are you f^%*#ng SERIOUS?

Looking at the length of the threads you guys have posted on here bickering over who's crappy regional is better than the other... I could almost guarantee that youve wasted, collectively, over 3 hours on this website conjuring your arguments over this issue. WHO CARES?? GET A LIFE people.

Ill wrap this argument up for the rest of the piloting population who may be checking into this thread to see if our "union" over here at RAH has done anything about this crap situation for us all. (YES! Youre correct, I work for RAH! Bash on!)- GET OFF THE DAMN COMPUTERS FOR FIVE SECONDS AND GO TRY TO MAKE SOME FRIENDS/BUILD SOMETHING/GET A CASE OF BEER/ (or for pete's sake) GET LAID! Nobody is going to think "Oh god - That Skywest/RAH/XJET guy really is onto something with their non-furloughs/profit sharing/stock options/170's for Midwest - I should quit my crappy regional job and go apply over there at a SUPER REGIONAL where life is nothing but pure joy!!!"

I know Im being a hypocrit by writing a response to this ridiculousness to begin with. But unlike you - I wont be back on this site for weeks to see it. So, I dont care.

And RAH guys - youre making us all look bad. Stop it.

Good luck to us all.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Nice mohawk!