Rah To Fly For Midwest Express

[ifly4u]

This violates our scope because it is a 10 year lease deal not a sale of airplanes. Any aircraft owned or leased by Republic Holdings have to be flown by RAH pilots. This appears to be a huge violation of our contract.

 

[dav8or]

D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.​

 

[DoinTime]

This violates our scope because it is a 10 year lease deal not a sale of airplanes. Any aircraft owned or leased by Republic Holdings have to be flown by RAH pilots. This appears to be a huge violation of our contract.

I don't think so....at the 1.5 year mark Midwest has the option to buy (or assume the leases) these airplanes.

Looks like RAH found a place to unload static aircraft that were draining the bottom line and taking up gate space in PIT. They might just get rid of them for good.

 

[TAWS]

You're forgetting some important stuff:

This is a secured loan - YX defaults, RAH ends up with alot of assets. (think of the F9 financing).

NWA needs someone to stop YX from sliding into oblivion, as they have their hands full with the DAL merger - BB is an NWA insider.

What is RAH getting out of the DAL deal, in return for doing this? (somewhere NWA is behind this).

 

[DoinTime]

BB is an NWA insider.

BB was kicked out of the NWA system.

 

[TAWS]

There is honor among thieves! Don't kid yourself, these guys move in the same circles. Your comment almost insinuated that NWA has ethics and morals - I almost questioned your sanity for a moment.

 

[PCL_128]

There is honor among thieves! Don't kid yourself, these guys move in the same circles. Your comment almost insinuated that NWA has ethics and morals - I almost questioned your sanity for a moment.

BB is not well liked in NWA circles. He did not leave on good terms.

 

[ifly4u]

I don't think so....at the 1.5 year mark Midwest has the option to buy (or assume the leases) these airplanes.

Assume the lease from whom? Republic owns the airplanes. RAH would be leasing the airplanes to Midwest.

 

[DoinTime]

There is honor among thieves! Don't kid yourself, these guys move in the same circles. Your comment almost insinuated that NWA has ethics and morals - I almost questioned your sanity for a moment.

NWA doesn't have ethics or morals. BB got kicked out because he wanted to reach out on his own and grab opportunity instead of do what he was told to do. NWA squeezed him out the door and inserted Foul Polley at Mesaba.

 

[DoinTime]

Assume the lease from whom? Republic owns the airplanes. RAH would be leasing the airplanes to Midwest.

The business arrangement is totally clear yet on ownership of these aircraft after the 1.5 year mark. RAH could sell them to a leasing company or sell them to Midwest. Either way it works around your Scope.

 

[ifly4u]

The business arrangement is totally clear yet on ownership of these aircraft after the 1.5 year mark. RAH could sell them to a leasing company or sell them to Midwest. Either way it works around your Scope.

I haven't seen any references to selling airplanes only leasing, if Midwest wants to buy them and fly them that is not "working around our scope" that is us selling them airplanes and them flying them, in that case I could care less.

 

[nimtz]

Flame me all you like (and yes I got alot of time on the EMB-145), but I've been consistent in my view since the 70 seaters were drawn up on paper. Don't allow beginners access to big jets! Easiest way to undercut this profession since Frankie Lorenzo. Anyone that sees a win in this scenario is either incompetent or a management stooge waiting to happen...

 

[Captain Morgan]

The 145 should've been a stretched Brasilia turboprop. It might have kept some credibility then.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I've had quite a bit of wine with my wife, so that last post might not make sense, i dunno... I'm gonna go have some fun with whip cream... l8r

 

[FlyWolf]

All I can say is that its truly a sad day here at Midwest.

A great man once said "I can't understand how can this management do so little with such a great opportunity" I bet you all know who that man is....here is a hint......... he owns NetJets.

 

[ifly4u]

Flame me all you like (and yes I got alot of time on the EMB-145), but I've been consistent in my view since the 70 seaters were drawn up on paper. Don't allow beginners access to big jets! Easiest way to undercut this profession since Frankie Lorenzo. Anyone that sees a win in this scenario is either incompetent or a management stooge waiting to happen...

The only people who see this as a win are maybe some of the 150 Republic guys who are scheduled to be furloughed next week. The other 95% of RAH pilots don't want any part of this but unfortunately we are already being painted as the villain.

My apologies to the guys who are getting furloughed I did not that mean that comment as a put down!!

 

[Iflyamouse]

Well if we can get the Midwest guys off furlough and into the left seat of an EJet, and get our own people off furlough it could be an acceptable short term solution that keeps food on everyone's tables.

How does this help the MAH guys come off furlough when they're going from 25 717's to only 9?? They're getting rid of 16 airplanes!! Those aircraft are being replaced by RAH 170's.

By the time the dust settles, all those furloughed 717 drivers will have new jobs (probably flying 50 seat RJ's cause they pay better than what MAH is offering them to fly 717's). Then new-hires will replace all the RAH pilots for less pay.

This is a lose-lose for all pilots.

 

[Aviation Geek]

I may be missing something here, but, didn't this happen, sort of in reverse, at Republic with E-jets only with US Airways?

Wasn't it something similar? Airways sold their Mid Atlantic jets to Republic but as it was a sale of assets they did not have to "sell" the pilots with the deal? Didn't this put the Airways guys back on the street. Didn't Mid Atlantic pilots fly the same planes for Airways?

Does all this make anybody else's head hurt? Do you ever wonder if these airline execs spent as much time running good quality companies as they did making craziness like this that we would not have half the problems we do?

I'm sorry, this kind of stuff is hocus pocus. Either you own and operate an airline, pay your people a decent salary to fly, serve and maintain said airplanes or you do not. It is just that simple.

For just how long are we as pilots going to put up with this crud? Seriously. Where is the line?

 

[Minimaniac]

For just how long are we as pilots going to put up with this crud? Seriously. Where is the line?

The line was crossed years ago. No one can remember exactly who crossed it, but we are so far from the line now that no one even remembers where it was. Maybe we can draw a new line, but more than likely we will all argue over who gets to draw it, and whether or not a straight line is better than a curvy one.

As for how long we will put up with it...apparently as long as there are seat to fill. Skybus had no problem getting pilots, and GoJets seems to fill their classes. And then there is Mesa, with lines around the block made of soon-to-be-furloughees. Our problem is we want to fly. Even those of us with alternate degrees and career fields still stick it out year after year. We really are hopeless, myself included. I want a better QOL, better work rules, and to be respected by management and the public for the job I do. But despite being 0 for 3, I am still here, and so are all of you.

The only way 90% of us will ever leave this industry is when we lose our jobs to foreign pilots courtesy of cabotage...how far off do you think that is?

 

[Captain Morgan]

Won't happen, foreign pilots make more money than we do. We are the Mexico and China of the skies.

 

[erikgigem]

All I can say is that its truly a sad day here at Midwest...

What day is sadder - close the doors permanantly to the airline with everyone on the street or some crazy deal? I'm not saying the deal is right - but we can't have everything we want when the airline we work for is about dead.

This is just the beginning of crazy deals among majors and regionals alike to survive in this bad economy. More to come in the months following...

 

[Captain Morgan]

This is akin to the DHL/UPS deal. DHL farms out work to UPS and furloughs thousands. Maybe we at RAH can get preferential hiring at UPS?! *Sarcasm*

 

[MCOE175]

This is a bad deal!! The furloughs will be over... no one going on the streets at RAH, the capt downgrades have been called off today. But whats even worse is that the ME guys will be on the streets.
Every pilot at RAH does not like this deal...
Smart on the behalf of management on both sides, but ********************ty on the behalf of the ME guys... I feel for the ME guys fully... Good luck!!!

 

[BusDriver12]

By the time the dust settles, all those furloughed 717 drivers will have new jobs (probably flying 50 seat RJ's cause they pay better than what MAH is offering them to fly 717's). Then new-hires will replace all the RAH pilots for less pay.

This is a lose-lose for all pilots.

Midwest is losing millions every quarter. Something had to be done.

the only alternative to this would be midwest going completely out of business. As many in the biz world thought would happen. Is that a lose-lose for all pilots also?

 

[Axel]

...

the only alternative to this would be midwest going completely out of business. As many in the biz world thought would happen. Is that a lose-lose for all pilots also?

I'm awfully ticked at the attempt to make me the anchor chained around their necks.

 

[BusDriver12]

I'm awfully ticked at the attempt to make me the anchor chained around their necks.

your not the anchor chained around their necks. They are themselves the anchor tied around their own necks.

Horrible management got Midwest into this. and now there are very few ways out.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Look, this deal sucks. As a republic guy I think this deal really sucks for everyone involved. You can say its for the share holders, but neither stocks went up very much so this helps noone and hurts many. However a decision made by management for current republic pilots to do flying that hasn't crossed any picket lines in no way makes any Republic pilots scabs. If RAH pilots could stop this deal believe me we would. So if anyone wants to call any of us scabs, just PM me and you can come call me that to my face. I am truly sorry for all the Midwest Guys and gals

 

[Moustache]

I'm glad YX kicked Skyway to the curb in April.......I wouldn't want to be part of this sihtstorm.....How could any airline want to team up w/ YX . Nobody wins next to YX...

 

[RP170]

So if anyone wants to call any of us scabs

Did I miss something here? I read all the posts in this thread and don't recall seeing the word "scab" anywhere.

Ah, but wait, this is FI, so you must be preparing us for some tool to post the "scab" word soon huh?

 

[Captain Morgan]

Since NWA has a stake in MEH, maybe NWA/DAL could give those MEH guys a seniority number and then integrate MEH with Compass. Compass then buys our (RAH) 12 planes and then everybody is happy. I dunno, just trying to shuffle the cards to make it all work. I talked to a friend at NWA and he said something about a max number of planes with 70 seats at NWA. I'm not certain what it was but maybe someone can post what the contract says.