Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[Speedtape]

So focused on your ALPA-hate that you can't even see the real problems. Pathetic.

I don't see the hate, but the reality. Are you suggesting that he shut-up and sit at the back of the bus?

As regional pilots, we have alot more in common with the founding members of ALPA. They fought arrogant and ruthless managements for safer work environment, better wages, better benefits, and job protection. We have done the same thing for years to achieve good contracts as compared to the late 80's and 90's. However, now, we are under attack not only by the ever present ruthless managements, but also by Mainline Unions--sadly, many of whose members flew in our cockpits, but some who have no perspective on our journey and challenges.

 

[jetflier]

usually a "lurker" on here, I cant help but notice the same argument that's been tossed around since I was at Pan Am Express. Pan Am Express enjoyed the first "flow-thru" of any airline. At 3 pilots per month flowing up to mainline, with their DOH seniority you would think that everyone was happy,...right ? Not a chance. Pan Am's MEC authorized two big jets for the Pan Am Express division, the BA146 and the F100. Similar to Compass, Pan Am Express was its own LEC within the Pan Am MEC. But the fighting continued while some Pan Am Express pilots took their rightfull place in the right seat of the 747, with their DOH. In the end, it didn't matter either way as Pan Am came to a grinding halt, and most pilots found themselvs on the street, while the few that were able to go to Delta were labled "Pan Am Pukes"!
I guess there is no real answer to the dilema. Perhaps future negotiations will address the issue and educate all pilots so someday a resolution will present itself.

 

[JumpersAway]

Well, there must be something that the mainline wants in regard to this "flow through", as I know it wasn't the ASA MEC that first approached DALPA regarding the issue. If we want a joint list, it's going to have to be fair and equitable for both sides- period. I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain. As I see it, I'd rather tank a DAL deal and live with the consequences rather than pander to a "less than qualified" stereotype with regard to a flow up.

Yes, ASA is a subcontractor for DAL. Yes, they can can us, but it's going to be a hell of a fight, especially given the contract that came as a result of our sale to Skywest, Inc. Is it ironclad...no. However, I'll take my chances with regard to their "lock in" with Delta.......more so than most other carriers.

Make no mistake about it- I'm for heavy scope protection. Personally, I'd like to see everything on a single list. But, I will not be a yes man with regard to the issue as a mainline puppet or sacrificial lamb.

 

[flyboyike]

I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain.

Thank you for posting that, I was starting to believe I was the only one who felt that way.

 

[USCtrojan]

Well, there must be something that the mainline wants in regard to this "flow through", as I know it wasn't the ASA MEC that first approached DALPA regarding the issue. If we want a joint list, it's going to have to be fair and equitable for both sides- period. I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain. As I see it, I'd rather tank a DAL deal and live with the consequences rather than pander to a "less than qualified" stereotype with regard to a flow up.

Yes, ASA is a subcontractor for DAL. Yes, they can can us, but it's going to be a hell of a fight, especially given the contract that came as a result of our sale to Skywest, Inc. Is it ironclad...no. However, I'll take my chances with regard to their "lock in" with Delta.......more so than most other carriers.

Make no mistake about it- I'm for heavy scope protection. Personally, I'd like to see everything on a single list. But, I will not be a yes man with regard to the issue as a mainline puppet or sacrificial lamb.

Great post Jumpers.

Trojan

 

[N2264J]

No, the dirty little secret of the OH strike was that OH was exactly 24 hours from being shut down, permanently.

Not that you would have a clue what management was thinking (they kept telling us they were going to shut us down) but if true, that would make Comair the ballsiest pilot group brandishing steely-eyed brinksmanship to the very edge of the abyss in the history of this pathetic union.

Clearly, Flying The Line III material.

 

[paddlehigh]

I though Pinnacle was independently owned, so why would they have a flow through with Delta. Thats like saying Mesa will get a flow through with Delta.

 

[Grinder10]

Two of the 3 person panel that interviewed me were active DAL Captains, the person in charge and that gave me the letter of hire...retired DAL Captain. His assistant that decided who's of the 10,000 apps to send to Arnie to be reviewed for an invite to interview: Retired DAL Captain.

Your version sounds the same as my brother's interview/hiring experience there. I'm glad to see that pilots are in control of hiring. That is the way it should be.

However, Hockeypilot's post was not referring to times like these where companies can afford to be selective. When there are thousands of pilots on the street of course you can pick and choose who you want to interview. We were talking about the hiring booms where it may be difficult to find enough people who meet the minimums. (hypothetically) If for some reason Delta management decided to drop the mins to 500tt and comm/instrument because they needed to hire a ton of pilots very quickly do you really think that there is anything the seniority list pilots could do about it? They may be in control of the interview process, but they are not in control of hiring minimums.

If any company has trouble filling their classes do you think they will a) raise wages to attract more qualified applicants or b) lower hiring minimums. The current seniority list will not have a choice in the matter. That was my point.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Pinnacle Delta Flow-though

Two of the 3 person panel that interviewed me were active DAL Captains, the person in charge and that gave me the letter of hire...retired DAL Captain. His assistant that decided who's of the 10,000 apps to send to Arnie to be reviewed for an invite to interview: Retired DAL Captain.

[read]: Management or management wannabe ie pilots doing management's bidding.

Poindexter has already made the case:

Actually, Delta pilots don't hire. Delta does. We at Delta support the fact that management can be choosy with respect to who gets hired and who doesn't.

You have a cozy "partners with management" relationship to the extent that management finds you useful but management cares not a whit about internal union disputes. All the talk about Delta pilots blackballing Comair pilots in the hiring process is a steaming pile.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't see the hate, but the reality. Are you suggesting that he shut-up and sit at the back of the bus?

No, I'm suggesting that he work to find a solution rather than hurling insults at the organization that isn't causing the problem.

 

[crashpad]

Just saw a copy of the memo. Congrats guys on the flow through, you all deserve it! No more worrying about your families future. Sit back and enjoy the free ride!

 

[seniorgolfer]

WE did talk. WE were summarily dismissed due to a couple of groups thinking that they had more leverage than they did. Now they have furloughs.

Your going to get what you get. If you don't want it, your going to get worse.

Accept the inevitable or spend the rest of your life
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Don't really care either way.

Hmm...

Delta had just under 11K active pilots a few years ago. They had far less before the NWA merger.

I can see that some RJ flying may be brought back to mainline, but mainline pilots will have to "buy it back" (fly for the rates the regionals currently do). There is no incentive for management to pay more for that gauge of flying than they do now.

The way travel demand (especially international) is waning, I'd be concerned about further mainline cutbacks if I was a mainline pilot.

 

[JumpersAway]

I'm still curious though, as to what a bilateral flow through offers the regional pilots that ante' up. So far, we've established that there is still going to be the need to interview, and that there will be no such barriers for those that flow down from mainline. Regardless of who does what flying, there is no benefit for those at the regional level. Seriously, who is dilusional enough to chase after something like this? As I see it, given the proposed lay out, it's best if DAL stayes on their side of the fense, and ASA'ers stay on theirs. Even if DAL "blacklists" ASA pilots as a result, DAL isn't going to be the only hiring game in town when the dust settles and the economy rebounds. Although I'd love to fly for DAL, it seems that I may be abandoning this thought for other employers..........

 

[flyboyike]

I'm still curious though, as to what a bilateral flow through offers the regional pilots that ante' up. So far, we've established that there is still going to be the need to interview.....

Seems to me supposedly the "ante-uppers" will interview ahead of anyone else (at least in theory). I agree with you that a carrot like that is neither big enough, nor particularly tasty. They'll still hire whomever they want.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

As with XJ the only requirement to flow up is a four year degree. I do not see how you can even call it a flow if we interview you. That is preferential hiring which is already in place.