Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[PuffDriver]

That would be a great idea-DAL pilots would get some perspective for a couple of years and perhaps would appreciate the fact that many "barbie jet" pilots do an excellent job as well..

No, you don't. That's why Delta management is actually in court trying to get rid of one. They do a crappy job.

I see the crap job you guys do on a daily basis. There is actually an objective in the 2009 Delta flight plan to bring the regionals up to Delta's standards in terms of performance and service.

In short, you cannot perform to our level. If we screw up, you screw up more.

Bottom line, if a regional does not exist, mainline fills the void with itself or another regional. Without your trunk carrier, you are out of a job. Your job stems directly from the legacy. It is that premise which is the reason that there has to be flow down equality to flow up.

nuff said. Carry on with your :bawling: :bawling:

 

[JumpersAway]

Here's the problem. We had a pilot shortage at the regional level a few years ago. Instead of raising wages, they just lowered the requirements to the bare FAA minimums. The interview process was virtually non-existent which allowed anyone to become a regional pilot. There is now a ridiculous pilot surplus which long-term will keep our wages down. We need to hold our current requirements at the majors, create a pilot shortage, and this time raise our wages instead of lowering the hiring standards. By allowing anyone at the regionals to flow, we assure that the seats at the majors will always be filled. This is management's dream. There are many airline pilots flying today that have no business flying for an airline.

Waiting for a pilot shortage to drive up the industry wage is futile. If you want to get paid what you are worth, we will have to fight and bleed. I hate to say it, and it's tough to do, but we, as an industry, will need to strike in order to get our point accross. No underlying schemes to gain market share or grow at the expense of someone else's loss. I flash back to a movie scene in "Goodfellas". So your airline traffic is down, F-U Pay me.......so oil is up to 150 a barrel, F-U Pay me.........so you need me to subsidize your poor business model, F-U Pay Me.............

 

[doh]

No, you don't. That's why Delta management is actually in court trying to get rid of one. They do a crappy job.

I see the crap job you guys do on a daily basis. There is actually an objective in the 2009 Delta flight plan to bring the regionals up to Delta's standards in terms of performance and service.

In short, you cannot perform to our level. If we screw up, you screw up more.

Bottom line, if a regional does not exist, mainline fills the void with itself or another regional. Without your trunk carrier, you are out of a job. Your job stems directly from the legacy. It is that premise which is the reason that there has to be flow down equality to flow up.

nuff said. Carry on with your :bawling: :bawling:

And there is where you are wrong. I fly enough on the airlines now to qualify for "platinum" status. The reason the regionals suck is their aircraft are filthy, and their schedules are unrealistic, thus making them constantly late. That is a direct result of mainlines intervention. You can't have a clean airplane unless you allocate enough time to clean the G*ddamn thing. The crews are never the problem, at least they never have been for me.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

We turn a 757 in 45 to 50 minutes. A 767 in an hr. There is no reason not to be able to turn a 50/70/or 76 seat jet in 25 mins.
I did that all of the time.

 

[Papa Woody]

There are many airline pilots flying today that have no business flying for an airline.

You know that Delta guy, too?

 

[Speedtape]

We turn a 757 in 45 to 50 minutes. A 767 in an hr. There is no reason not to be able to turn a 50/70/or 76 seat jet in 25 mins.
I did that all of the time.

And as you well know--that turn is totally dependent on the readiness, attitude, and efficiency of the Above Wing and Below Wing, fellow team members. Oops, those are now mainline employees, and in Atlanta usually the new hires!

25 minute turns are very possible--the flight crews are generally not the problem. However, there is no recovery time if the flight is running late.

Do you still cross seat belts on your 767?

 

[doh]

We turn a 757 in 45 to 50 minutes. A 767 in an hr. There is no reason not to be able to turn a 50/70/or 76 seat jet in 25 mins.
I did that all of the time.

Not with one flight attendant. You have got to build some time in there for human physiological needs. And you have to operate on a margin which allows resources for replacement of old seats, etc.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We turn a 757 in 45 to 50 minutes. A 767 in an hr. There is no reason not to be able to turn a 50/70/or 76 seat jet in 25 mins.
I did that all of the time.

YOUR fellow Delta employees can't turn a 50 seat RJ in ATL in less than 45 minutes.....I thought mainline was better?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Let's do some math....How many Delta pilots do we think will be hired in the next 10 years?

I'll take a guess at none for a couple of years....and then about 350 per year starting in 2011....after the 200 or so that have to flow up from Compass and Mesaba....that leaves about 150 per year from all other sources.

Does anyone really want to pin their hopes on those odds?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Joe, there are some years that we will need to hire over 800 just to keep up with attrition.

I agree that if we hire the next few years it will be small. Now starting in 2012 the game is on. We will start and probably not stop for 20 years.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And as you well know--that turn is totally dependent on the readiness, attitude, and efficiency of the Above Wing and Below Wing, fellow team members. Oops, those are now mainline employees, and in Atlanta usually the new hires!

25 minute turns are very possible--the flight crews are generally not the problem. However, there is no recovery time if the flight is running late.

Do you still cross seat belts on your 767?

If I tried to go anywhere near a seat when the cleaners are on board, I would be killed. I have never seen such quick motivated individuals who get paid by the hr. I have seen them clean a trashed 767 in under five minutes. The most difficult thing about turning a 767 in min time is getting to the flight deck while they are boarding.

FWIW. I have turned a 757 in 24 min and a 767 in 33. It can be done.

 

[DoinTime]

If I tried to go anywhere near a seat when the cleaners are on board, I would be killed. I have never seen such quick motivated individuals who get paid by the hr. I have seen them clean a trashed 767 in under five minutes. The most difficult thing about turning a 767 in min time is getting to the flight deck while they are boarding.

Unfortunately, the lowest cost bidder on regional services does not share this motivation. If Delta gets poor service from their regional partners the only one to blame is Delta.


[/quote]FWIW. I have turned a 757 in 24 min and a 767 in 33. It can be done.[/QUOTE]

Its not worth anything but for the record I've turned a Saab in 4 minutes and a CRJ in 9.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, there are some years that we will need to hire over 800 just to keep up with attrition.

I agree that if we hire the next few years it will be small. Now starting in 2012 the game is on. We will start and probably not stop for 20 years.

Post the attrition numbers for the next 10 years.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

2009 6
2010 13
2011 15
2012 24
2013 139
2014 238
2015 278
2016 329
2017 386
2018 469
2019 558
2020 644
2021 829
2022 869
2023 821
2024 809
2025 722
2026 622
2027 514
2028 480
2029 477
2030 493
2031 435
2032 329
2033 259
2034 166
2035 108

After 2035 it goes to less than 100 a year.

 

[PCL_128]

How can you have retirements in the next few years? Those must be old age 60 numbers.