Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[PuffDriver]

TRANSLATION:

"Screw everyone else, just give me a place to go when I get furloughed."

-You should have heard this tool a few years back.

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

The chickens are coming home to roost. Regional are not the growth machines that the regional guys used to think they were. They are not cash cows anymore. They are feeling the pinch from their over expansion. With the exception of Mesa, Delta really doesn't care who feeds them, and with the glut of regionals, their contracts are coming under fire. Costs need to be cut--as in pilot costs. The regional wage peaked, and is feeling intense pressure down.

Your career has been made on the backs of legacy pilots, and the control of that career has always been in the hands of people other than you. Up to recently, it has been give, give, give from the legacies and take, take, take on your part. Those days are drawing to a close.

The reality is setting in. Your airlines do a poor job of feeding. You do a poor job of customer service in and out of the plane. RJs are cramped and hot, and not a good place to sit for 2 hours with no updates from the crew. Look for more changes as more 50 seaters get parked, and more embs come on line to airlines whose MECs are more cooperative with the DAL mec.

It's reality, it's what I have been predicting for awhile, and it's happening.

Irony is a bitch, isn't it.

 

[sweptback]

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

The chickens are coming home to roost. Regional are not the growth machines that the regional guys used to think they were. They are not cash cows anymore. They are feeling the pinch from their over expansion. With the exception of Mesa, Delta really doesn't care who feeds them, and with the glut of regionals, their contracts are coming under fire. Costs need to be cut--as in pilot costs. The regional wage peaked, and is feeling intense pressure down.

Your career has been made on the backs of legacy pilots, and the control of that career has always been in the hands of people other than you. Up to recently, it has been give, give, give from the legacies and take, take, take on your part. Those days are drawing to a close.

The reality is setting in. Your airlines do a poor job of feeding. You do a poor job of customer service in and out of the plane. RJs are cramped and hot, and not a good place to sit for 2 hours with no updates from the crew. Look for more changes as more 50 seaters get parked, and more embs come on line to airlines whose MECs are more cooperative with the DAL mec.

It's reality, it's what I have been predicting for awhile, and it's happening.

Irony is a bitch, isn't it.

Look, neither side is blameless. I could have written a condescending and snarky reply like you did but I'm not like that.

We both have something that the other side wants and the sooner EACH SIDE realizes that, the sooner we can make things happen.

If we keep playing the "us-versus-them" mentality that you guys are playing now, it's never going to happen.

 

[PuffDriver]

Look, neither side is blameless. I could have written a condescending and snarky reply like you did but I'm not like that.

We both have something that the other side wants and the sooner EACH SIDE realizes that, the sooner we can make things happen.

If we keep playing the "us-versus-them" mentality that you guys are playing now, it's never going to happen.

That's the point. There is nothing that the regionals have that the legacies want and cannot get. There is plenty that the regionals want that they simply must wait and see what happens.

The legacies control the game. The regionals are simply a product of the outcome.

It's not condescending. It's reality. The sooner the regionals realize that, the better off they will be.

It is what it is.

 

[flyboyike]

That's the point. There is nothing that the regionals have that the legacies want and cannot get. There is plenty that the regionals want that they simply must wait and see what happens.

The legacies control the game. The regionals are simply a product of the outcome.

It's not condescending. It's reality. The sooner the regionals realize that, the better off they will be.

It is what it is.

That sounds familiar. Is this where I say "Yes, massa, whatever you say, massa?"

 

[sweptback]

That's the point. There is nothing that the regionals have that the legacies want and cannot get. There is plenty that the regionals want that they simply must wait and see what happens.

The legacies control the game. The regionals are simply a product of the outcome.

It's not condescending. It's reality. The sooner the regionals realize that, the better off they will be.

It is what it is.

Are you sure about that? DCI carriers fly over 50% of the domestic flights. How does mainline get that back without making huge concessions, if it's even possible?

 

[PuffDriver]

That sounds familiar. Is this where I say "Yes, massa, whatever you say, massa?"

Um, yeah, that's it. Comparing slavery to our scope situation. Right on, man.

Nobody is forcing you to work at Comair. you can quit anytime. While you do, your flying is subject to increase, decrease, or cancellation.

The RJDC had the same mentality.

 

[PuffDriver]

Are you sure about that? DCI carriers fly over 50% of the domestic flights. How does mainline get that back without making huge concessions, if it's even possible?

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day. What they do have an interest in is keeping that customer, who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk. Moreover, that MYR-ATL leg needs to have the costs controlled so that the entire ticket represents a profit, so that their mainline wage can be brought up.

Some very smart folks have finger on this pulse. As we say at mainline, you'll get the memo.

 

[sweptback]

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day. What they do have an interest in is keeping that customer, who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk. Moreover, that MYR-ATL leg needs to have the costs controlled so that the entire ticket represents a profit, so that their mainline wage can be brought up.

Some very smart folks have finger on this pulse. As we say at mainline, you'll get the memo.

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

News flash: there are 76-seat aircraft flying Delta passengers on Delta routes. These airplanes are flying routes that the 737-200 and 727 flew just a few short years ago. I guess you don't want those back. What were the captain rates on the 737-200 anyway? How many more mainline jobs are you willing to give away to protect your precious Rome flights?

 

[flyboyike]

Um, yeah, that's it. Comparing slavery to our scope situation. Right on, man.

Well, you know the old saying about well-fitting shoes, right?

 

[PuffDriver]

Well, you know the old saying about well-fitting shoes, right?

Yeah, I do, and your response is still trite and juvenile.

..oh, and stupid. You must fit right in at Comair.

 

[PuffDriver]

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

News flash: there are 76-seat aircraft flying Delta passengers on Delta routes. These airplanes are flying routes that the 737-200 and 727 flew just a few short years ago. I guess you don't want those back. What were the captain rates on the 737-200 anyway? How many more mainline jobs are you willing to give away to protect your precious Rome flights?

The 12 year rate for the 737-200 was somewhere just north of 200/hr for captains when it went away. You are taking a molehill--not wanting to fly saabs to MYR, and making a mountain--not wanting 76 seat flying--out of it. Keep track of your arguments.

 

[Flyer1015]

Your career has been made on the backs of legacy pilots

The same arrogant pri*ks who were "too good" to fly RJs, and scoped them out to protect their own hide, circa early/mid 90s. So save the speech. Look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

Costs need to be cut--as in pilot costs. The regional wage peaked,

Regional pilots are already paid peanuts. This is just wonderful... another pilot proposing and furthering pilot custs (on one of their own kind). Management's wet dream.

Up to recently, it has been give, give, give from the legacies and take, take, take on your part.

Well gee, who farmed out scope in the first place? Pot, kettle....... meet.

Irony is a bitch, isn't it.

I should be saying this to you, not the other way around. NONE of these problems would exist had the legacy pilots had the cajones to keep RJs where they belonged.

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day.

That's EXACTLY the type of attitude I'm talking about! You reap what you sow, you farmed out scope, kept RJs off because you were "too good" to fly them, and had "no interest" in it.

who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk

I know what airport FCO is. Just because I haven't piloted across the pond with your "God's gift of aviation" mentality, doesn't mean I don't know what airport FCO is. We, too, use flight benefits and see the world.

 

[Flyer1015]

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

EXACTLY. Which is why any pilot with the attitude like puffdriver gets zero sympathy from me. You reap what you sow. Your fault, not mine.

 

[sweptback]

The 12 year rate for the 737-200 was somewhere just north of 200/hr for captains when it went away. You are taking a molehill--not wanting to fly saabs to MYR, and making a mountain--not wanting 76 seat flying--out of it. Keep track of your arguments.

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

 

[PuffDriver]

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

What should be done, and the reality of what can be done are two different things. I see it from a realist standpoint, and from the standpoint of actually being here.