Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[PuffDriver]

That sounds familiar. Is this where I say "Yes, massa, whatever you say, massa?"

Um, yeah, that's it. Comparing slavery to our scope situation. Right on, man.

Nobody is forcing you to work at Comair. you can quit anytime. While you do, your flying is subject to increase, decrease, or cancellation.

The RJDC had the same mentality.

 

[PuffDriver]

Are you sure about that? DCI carriers fly over 50% of the domestic flights. How does mainline get that back without making huge concessions, if it's even possible?

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day. What they do have an interest in is keeping that customer, who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk. Moreover, that MYR-ATL leg needs to have the costs controlled so that the entire ticket represents a profit, so that their mainline wage can be brought up.

Some very smart folks have finger on this pulse. As we say at mainline, you'll get the memo.

 

[sweptback]

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day. What they do have an interest in is keeping that customer, who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk. Moreover, that MYR-ATL leg needs to have the costs controlled so that the entire ticket represents a profit, so that their mainline wage can be brought up.

Some very smart folks have finger on this pulse. As we say at mainline, you'll get the memo.

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

News flash: there are 76-seat aircraft flying Delta passengers on Delta routes. These airplanes are flying routes that the 737-200 and 727 flew just a few short years ago. I guess you don't want those back. What were the captain rates on the 737-200 anyway? How many more mainline jobs are you willing to give away to protect your precious Rome flights?

 

[flyboyike]

Um, yeah, that's it. Comparing slavery to our scope situation. Right on, man.

Well, you know the old saying about well-fitting shoes, right?

 

[PuffDriver]

Well, you know the old saying about well-fitting shoes, right?

Yeah, I do, and your response is still trite and juvenile.

..oh, and stupid. You must fit right in at Comair.

 

[PuffDriver]

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

News flash: there are 76-seat aircraft flying Delta passengers on Delta routes. These airplanes are flying routes that the 737-200 and 727 flew just a few short years ago. I guess you don't want those back. What were the captain rates on the 737-200 anyway? How many more mainline jobs are you willing to give away to protect your precious Rome flights?

The 12 year rate for the 737-200 was somewhere just north of 200/hr for captains when it went away. You are taking a molehill--not wanting to fly saabs to MYR, and making a mountain--not wanting 76 seat flying--out of it. Keep track of your arguments.

 

[Flyer1015]

Your career has been made on the backs of legacy pilots

The same arrogant pri*ks who were "too good" to fly RJs, and scoped them out to protect their own hide, circa early/mid 90s. So save the speech. Look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

Costs need to be cut--as in pilot costs. The regional wage peaked,

Regional pilots are already paid peanuts. This is just wonderful... another pilot proposing and furthering pilot custs (on one of their own kind). Management's wet dream.

Up to recently, it has been give, give, give from the legacies and take, take, take on your part.

Well gee, who farmed out scope in the first place? Pot, kettle....... meet.

Irony is a bitch, isn't it.

I should be saying this to you, not the other way around. NONE of these problems would exist had the legacy pilots had the cajones to keep RJs where they belonged.

Who said anything about getting it back? Most mainliners have no interest in flying a saab 340 to MYR 8 times a day.

That's EXACTLY the type of attitude I'm talking about! You reap what you sow, you farmed out scope, kept RJs off because you were "too good" to fly them, and had "no interest" in it.

who may be going to FCO--that's Rome for you regional folk

I know what airport FCO is. Just because I haven't piloted across the pond with your "God's gift of aviation" mentality, doesn't mean I don't know what airport FCO is. We, too, use flight benefits and see the world.

 

[Flyer1015]

This is what gets me. You guys look at some flying like it's below you. With that attitude, things will never change.

EXACTLY. Which is why any pilot with the attitude like puffdriver gets zero sympathy from me. You reap what you sow. Your fault, not mine.

 

[sweptback]

The 12 year rate for the 737-200 was somewhere just north of 200/hr for captains when it went away. You are taking a molehill--not wanting to fly saabs to MYR, and making a mountain--not wanting 76 seat flying--out of it. Keep track of your arguments.

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

 

[PuffDriver]

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

What should be done, and the reality of what can be done are two different things. I see it from a realist standpoint, and from the standpoint of actually being here.

 

[PuffDriver]

EXACTLY. Which is why any pilot with the attitude like puffdriver gets zero sympathy from me. You reap what you sow. Your fault, not mine.

Who's looking for sympathy? I am merely trying to explain why the regional career guys are about to get a sharp dose of reality in their paychecks, and that there is a very good chance that 70+ seat flying will come back into the mainline fold, and to not be surprised by it. It was, is, and always will be the property of mainline. IMO, the last agreement stepped over the line with the rank and file, and they are going to redraw it.

It's coming, and IMO there will be some regional guys who benefit from it, and most definitely some who will not. I know you guys like playing the martyr, but you are appealing to emotions that I do not have. Been there, done it, got the patch.

 

[Moustache]

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

Who does Delta fly for? I've heard a lot about it lately.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What should be done, and the reality of what can be done are two different things. I see it from a realist standpoint, and from the standpoint of actually being here.

As much as I hate to admit it, Puff is correct. One thing that many pilots fail to consider is the political landscape of ALPA. What we want and what can be achieved today are two different things. At ALPA we represent both the Mainline and regional pilots, at DALPA we represent the senior and junior pilots. What this means is there is a conflict and how much negotiating capital should be expelled on this. The senior guys care about scope to a point, but are not going to sacrifice a pay raise to take it all back, where as the junior guy is willing to risk it all. Varying desires and the political winds of ALPA must come in to play with this. DALPA represents the interests of the Delta pilot, and ALPA represents the interest of the regional and mainline pilot. In effect a quagmire.
What can be achieved today is a stepping stone for future advances in scope and list integration. Should we abandon that pursuit if it only goes half way? I think not.

 

[Nightrain_080]

upgrades

Are upgrades looking about 15 years out? :beer:

 

[WWEfan]

Mesa sucks!

 

[Speedtape]

Who's looking for sympathy? I am merely trying to explain why the regional career guys are about to get a sharp dose of reality in their paychecks, and that there is a very good chance that 70+ seat flying will come back into the mainline fold, and to not be surprised by it. It was, is, and always will be the property of mainline. IMO, the last agreement stepped over the line with the rank and file, and they are going to redraw it.

It's coming, and IMO there will be some regional guys who benefit from it, and most definitely some who will not. I know you guys like playing the martyr, but you are appealing to emotions that I do not have. Been there, done it, got the patch.

What are you puffing on? When this economy continues the downward spiral--you may not upgrade for another 10 years.

 

[imacdog]

Amazing how mainline pilots will only talk with their regional partners when it's to the benefit of Mainline pilots. Some profession, isn't it?

 

[imacdog]

What can be achieved today is a stepping stone for future advances in scope and list integration. Should we abandon that pursuit if it only goes half way? I think not.

Especially when the mainline pilots end up on the better "half".

 

[PuffDriver]

Amazing how mainline pilots will only talk with their regional partners when it's to the benefit of Mainline pilots. Some profession, isn't it?

WE did talk. WE were summarily dismissed due to a couple of groups thinking that they had more leverage than they did. Now they have furloughs.

Your going to get what you get. If you don't want it, your going to get worse.

Accept the inevitable or spend the rest of your life
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Don't really care either way.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Puff is a CA, my upgrade might be 10 years down the road.

One thing you need to realize over here. It is more about QOL that the stripes. Heck we have a guy on the 767 domestic here in ATL that is 600 or so on the seniority list that is hanging out in the right seat. When guys can make 130K a year in the right seat, some of the motivation to move up goes away.

See many think that the DAL guys are quacking in their pants over getting furloughed and that is the only reason they are talking to the regional guys. Wrong. That perception created the same ego based issues that killed this last time. Timing is coincidental. See we are done with 1113C and the merger issues related to us. Just so happens that we are in a recession.