Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[PuffDriver]

You are in a Union. You are technically a subcontractor through ALPA.

Incorrect. The ID says Delta. Go bark up another tree.

Sometimes History repeats itself.

The beginnings of your backing off. "Sometimes" So much for that argument.

But, where are you getting your information about the economy bottoming out?

Same places as everyone else.

This Union does nothing but yoke the regional pilots.

Laughable. "yoking" This union did one lousy job of limiting the regional pilot career from '95-'05 as claimed by the RJDC.

Advanced bookings dictate less flights! When the economy turns around, in about 3 years, everybody will grow again.

Advanced booking are looking stronger. Have you not been paying attention? Or are you just not informed as exhibited by your posts?

Are you in control? No--I know that much. What's the price of oil going to be next month? What is the inflation rate going to be this year? How long is this downturn going to last? How long will it take folks that are out work to get back on their feet so they can become consumers again? Are you the Wizard?

Your not paying attention. This isn't about the economy. It will do what it will do. This is about who controls scope. Your post is about slamming, and of no substance. Wind check is my favorite. Slamming a group for checking the wind. Good one. You go girl!! If that's all you have in a scope debate, so be it.

Hook, line, sinker.

 

[Speedtape]

Neither did I. More non facts

OK---30 to 40%--You win and also feel free to have the last word. I grant that order.

Enjoy watching the tournament on TV. If you see someone waving in the Gallery, it may be me!

 

[Speedtape]

Incorrect. The ID says Delta. Go bark up another tree.
So does mine. But, you are represented by a bargaining agent, which makes you a third party.
The beginnings of your backing off. "Sometimes" So much for that argument.
If it makes you feel good, believe it. "Sometimes" means what it means.
Same places as everyone else.
Apparently, not!
Laughable. "yoking" This union did one lousy job of limiting the regional pilot career from '95-'05 as claimed by the RJDC.
Your group created that monster. Somewhere around your contract of 1996.
Advanced booking are looking stronger. Have you not been paying attention? Or are you just not informed as exhibited by your posts?
And that's why they are cutting flights to Europe in the Fall??????
Your not paying attention. This isn't about the economy. It will do what it will do. This is about who controls scope. Your post is about slamming, and of no substance. Wind check is my favorite. Slamming a group for checking the wind. Good one. You go girl!! If that's all you have in a scope debate, so be it.
Enjoy your honeymoon. As soon as the merger is complete, the landscape will change. The merger made perfect sense with the onset of the recession because there is plenty of room to shrink--a unique advantage.
Hook, line, sinker.

Don't worry, the line can be broken! Personally, I prefer the "Judo" method or the "Rope a Dope!"

Peace out!

 

[PuffDriver]

Since we've wound it down to just a few lines of your BS, we'll quote these:

Your group created that monster. Somewhere around your contract of 1996.

The discussion was that ALPA is yoking regional pilots. The reply was that they have been doing a lousy job of it. So you change the subject back to scope. Keep track of your arguments, and keep them in line.
Me: The sky is blue
You: No, it's green
Me: Just look up
You: Grass is Brown

And that's why they are cutting flights to Europe in the Fall??????

Flights to Europe ALWAYS get cut in the fall.

Enjoy your honeymoon. As soon as the merger is complete, the landscape will change. The merger made perfect sense with the onset of the recession because there is plenty of room to shrink--a unique advantage.

Te honeymoon is already over. The landscape is always changing. It appears to be trending better. The merger made perfect sense to fill in gaps where each airline was lacking. This airline is poised to kick a$$. The regional who play ball will enjoy that growth. The airlines who don't, won't. If Delta shrinks, we sure as hell won't need as much feed. It all runs downhill, ya know.

This has been exciting, but I am matching wits with the unarmed, and it's getting boring.

So long.

 

[NuGuy]

I guess you were not around when Delta parked OH in 2001? How did that work out?

You mean the one that had the full support from the DAL pilots, including flight monitoring and technical support? The OH MEC sure repaid that debt.

Ever wonder why the OH NC/MEC settled so abruptly for a mediocre contract, considering they were out for 90 days? Surely if they had Comair management right where they wanted them, they should have gotten everything they asked for, right?

No, the dirty little secret of the OH strike was that OH was exactly 24 hours from being shut down, permanently.

Nu

 

[xjhawk]

here is the deal. I will let you figure it out....who it is. But I have not seen the one person who actually knows the deal reply in this thread in the first couple pages so i am not looking any further........Hope 9E gets their good contract. us at XJ fully support them. And if they think the flow is something they want.....even though they are not owned....they are brand. So I would support that....even though my opinion does not count......

 

[imacdog]

Heyas,

I think this is a critical point that is lost on a lot of scooters.

Should DAL decide, they could PARK XJ and OH tomorrow. Sell/scrap the aircraft. Terminate the employees.

Same with EV and 9E. Pay the cancellation penalty in the contract and be done with it. 9E would be in 11/7 within a week, and Skywest would park a majority of the EV fleet.

There would be no lawsuits from the employees. No "DFR" suits. It would be a business decision.

These outfits are nothing but contract lift providers. No different than lawn or poolboys. Like any contracted help, Delta is feel to hire or fire at their whim.

Nu

So they are separate entities. In that case, why do mainline pilots expect their regional affiliates to provide preferential hiring or flowback when mainline furloughs? Or are they only separate entities when times are good and mainline is hiring?

 

[PCL_128]

This thread is just depressing. So much for progressive thinking on mainline/regional issues. Just bicker and hate each other instead. I'm sure that will work out well.

Where are the cooler heads like Occam and FDJ2? Come on guys!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ACL for f/o rep!!!!!!!!!

Good seeing you the other day. Although you are ugly in the morning. Yikes!!!!!

You should talk, and where was you hat?

Plus I had been up all night, and you had just gotten your beauty sleep!

 

[JoeMerchant]

This thread is just depressing. So much for progressive thinking on mainline/regional issues. Just bicker and hate each other instead. I'm sure that will work out well.

Where are the cooler heads like Occam and FDJ2? Come on guys!

This is how ALPA operates....bickering and hate are the ALPA trademarks.....Single list with Compass can't even happen....Why can't we all get along?

 

[PCL_128]

This is how ALPA operates....bickering and hate are the ALPA trademarks.....Single list with Compass can't even happen....Why can't we all get along?

"ALPA" isn't the problem here, Joey. The problem is the idiot rank-and-file who want to tear down their fellow pilots simply because they fly smaller airplanes. The arrogance will once again lead to just more scope erosion and lost jobs. You want to attack ALPA, as always, but ALPA isn't represented on this thread. This thread is just a bunch of rank-and-file guys, not union leadership. Unfortunately, the leadership has to do as the rank-and-file directs, and once again, it looks like that direction is to diminish the regional pilots because of mainline arrogance. If pilots don't wake up and realize that the guy flying the 50-seat RJ is just as much a fellow pilot as the guy flying the 777, then we're doomed as a profession.

 

[Speedtape]

"ALPA" isn't the problem here, Joey. The problem is the idiot rank-and-file who want to tear down their fellow pilots simply because they fly smaller airplanes. The arrogance will once again lead to just more scope erosion and lost jobs. You want to attack ALPA, as always, but ALPA isn't represented on this thread. This thread is just a bunch of rank-and-file guys, not union leadership. Unfortunately, the leadership has to do as the rank-and-file directs, and once again, it looks like that direction is to diminish the regional pilots because of mainline arrogance. If pilots don't wake up and realize that the guy flying the 50-seat RJ is just as much a fellow pilot as the guy flying the 777, then we're doomed as a profession.

Good post! ALPA seems to be a figment of our imagination. Most need to review the acronym--Air Line Pilot Association.

 

[JoeMerchant]

"ALPA" isn't the problem here, Joey. The problem is the idiot rank-and-file who want to tear down their fellow pilots simply because they fly smaller airplanes. The arrogance will once again lead to just more scope erosion and lost jobs. You want to attack ALPA, as always, but ALPA isn't represented on this thread. This thread is just a bunch of rank-and-file guys, not union leadership. Unfortunately, the leadership has to do as the rank-and-file directs, and once again, it looks like that direction is to diminish the regional pilots because of mainline arrogance. If pilots don't wake up and realize that the guy flying the 50-seat RJ is just as much a fellow pilot as the guy flying the 777, then we're doomed as a profession.

ALPA is the agent that represents us...If it fails because of the "idiot rank and file" then it fails...The arrogance has existed since the regionals first started flying....No excuse...ALPA will never accept an RJ driver as an equal to a mighty 777 driver....Never in a million years...

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA is the agent that represents us...If it fails because of the "idiot rank and file" then it fails...The arrogance has existed since the regionals first started flying....No excuse...ALPA will never accept an RJ driver as an equal to a mighty 777 driver....Never in a million years...

So focused on your ALPA-hate that you can't even see the real problems. Pathetic.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So focused on your ALPA-hate that you can't even see the real problems. Pathetic.

The real problem is the mainline pilots and their arrogance...but that doesn't absolve ALPA of it's DFR responsibilities...I have dealt with this arrogance since before you flew for Gulfstream....It isn't going to change....What is pathetic is you thinking it will change....

 

[Speedtape]

So focused on your ALPA-hate that you can't even see the real problems. Pathetic.

I don't see the hate, but the reality. Are you suggesting that he shut-up and sit at the back of the bus?

As regional pilots, we have alot more in common with the founding members of ALPA. They fought arrogant and ruthless managements for safer work environment, better wages, better benefits, and job protection. We have done the same thing for years to achieve good contracts as compared to the late 80's and 90's. However, now, we are under attack not only by the ever present ruthless managements, but also by Mainline Unions--sadly, many of whose members flew in our cockpits, but some who have no perspective on our journey and challenges.

 

[jetflier]

usually a "lurker" on here, I cant help but notice the same argument that's been tossed around since I was at Pan Am Express. Pan Am Express enjoyed the first "flow-thru" of any airline. At 3 pilots per month flowing up to mainline, with their DOH seniority you would think that everyone was happy,...right ? Not a chance. Pan Am's MEC authorized two big jets for the Pan Am Express division, the BA146 and the F100. Similar to Compass, Pan Am Express was its own LEC within the Pan Am MEC. But the fighting continued while some Pan Am Express pilots took their rightfull place in the right seat of the 747, with their DOH. In the end, it didn't matter either way as Pan Am came to a grinding halt, and most pilots found themselvs on the street, while the few that were able to go to Delta were labled "Pan Am Pukes"!
I guess there is no real answer to the dilema. Perhaps future negotiations will address the issue and educate all pilots so someday a resolution will present itself.

 

[JumpersAway]

Well, there must be something that the mainline wants in regard to this "flow through", as I know it wasn't the ASA MEC that first approached DALPA regarding the issue. If we want a joint list, it's going to have to be fair and equitable for both sides- period. I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain. As I see it, I'd rather tank a DAL deal and live with the consequences rather than pander to a "less than qualified" stereotype with regard to a flow up.

Yes, ASA is a subcontractor for DAL. Yes, they can can us, but it's going to be a hell of a fight, especially given the contract that came as a result of our sale to Skywest, Inc. Is it ironclad...no. However, I'll take my chances with regard to their "lock in" with Delta.......more so than most other carriers.

Make no mistake about it- I'm for heavy scope protection. Personally, I'd like to see everything on a single list. But, I will not be a yes man with regard to the issue as a mainline puppet or sacrificial lamb.

 

[flyboyike]

I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain.

Thank you for posting that, I was starting to believe I was the only one who felt that way.

 

[USCtrojan]

Well, there must be something that the mainline wants in regard to this "flow through", as I know it wasn't the ASA MEC that first approached DALPA regarding the issue. If we want a joint list, it's going to have to be fair and equitable for both sides- period. I'm will not bow down to a faint glimmer of hope regarding a DAL career at the near 100% chance of shedding my own blood for marginal gain. As I see it, I'd rather tank a DAL deal and live with the consequences rather than pander to a "less than qualified" stereotype with regard to a flow up.

Yes, ASA is a subcontractor for DAL. Yes, they can can us, but it's going to be a hell of a fight, especially given the contract that came as a result of our sale to Skywest, Inc. Is it ironclad...no. However, I'll take my chances with regard to their "lock in" with Delta.......more so than most other carriers.

Make no mistake about it- I'm for heavy scope protection. Personally, I'd like to see everything on a single list. But, I will not be a yes man with regard to the issue as a mainline puppet or sacrificial lamb.

Great post Jumpers.

Trojan