Compass agreement

[Raskal]

^^ Understood.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.
That is why a bi-lateral flow is the best that you can hope for under the current thinking.

Mesaba fought the bilateral flow, have they changed their mind?

 

[N2264J]

You guys also didn't want a %100 bi-lateral flow. The ONLY reason you guys signed on to what little flow that XJ has, is because the hammer was coming down: "give us a flow down, or no shiny new jets".

When did ALPA whipsawing its own members start passing for unity or brotherhood?

 

[N2264J]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

 

[PuffDriver]

When did ALPA whipsawing its own members start passing for unity or brotherhood?

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

Because Delta pilots are "partners with management." "Union" isn't their strong suit, outside of their own cult, regardless of what they say.

Tell me, did the PanAm pilots interview? Northeast? Western? Are they interviewing the Northwest pilots right now?

Actually, Delta pilots don't hire. Delta does. We at Delta support the fact that management can be choosy with respect to who gets hired and who doesn't. One merely has to look at the last round of hiring to find the desirable/skilled pilots and the airlines from which they came, and one could also look at the airlines whose pilot ranks didn't fare so well in the skilled/desirable criteria.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Those were mergers as you know. DAL bought a like carrier. They did not operate them as a separate wholly owned entity. That was never their intention.
As you are seeing with NWA their desire is to merge the two groups, DAL and NWA, harmonize all of their operations and gain substantial cost saving to do so. This is why NWA pilots, Western and PanAm pilots do not interview for those jobs. They are merging them in to us. That was never the goal or desire of management with OH, EV, or XJ. CPS is a different animal, and we will see how they do that. The three other airlines mentioned are operated as separate carriers on their own tickets as wholly owned or now FFD carriers. It is not the desire or intention of management to change that.
Now, we as a union can work with management to realize savings of doing so, but management needs to play along to make that happen. Will it? The answer for the time being is almost always NO.

As Puff stated look at the people they hired this last round. 95% of them had Executive management experience, Flt Ops Operation, Training, or management experience. From the military pilots they had all of that too. Fact is that DAL can require a stellar resume from it candidates. Why? Because they always have, have always found the correct individuals, and the pool is full of these individuals.
As I stated in a previous post. You want to come to DAL, go to CPS where there is a direct flow, or go get the experience outside of flying the line that makes you stand out in the seat of over 12K qualified applicants. Next time around, I would venture to guess that we will see over 20K applicants. That is just to start.
Will they every get ride of the college degree requirement? Maybe. In the 2015 to 2025 time frame, they will need to be hiring 500 to 1000 pilots a year to just keep up with attrition. If there is ever a chance that is when it would happen. Now, I find it quite doubtful given who is in the wings being groomed to take over the Flt Ops leadership positions of tomorrow.

 

[profit]

What makes you think that?

Compass is made up of a lot Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, ASA, Eagle, Xjet, ATA, and more. Just because Compass has been around for about 2 years does not mean the pilots have not been put "sweat equity" into DAL and NWA

I'm curious how many Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Comair pilots are there. I believe somewhat in family scope, and if you came from another within the family, you should have some "family seniority". But I can barely think of a few Mesaba pilots who jumped ship for Compass. And the reason family matters some is because DAL and NWA intentionally ignore them when it comes to offering interviews in the first place.

As for time within the family, I'd say the VAST majority of -900 Captains at XJ have 10+ years.

 

[profit]

Mesaba fought the bilateral flow, have they changed their mind?

Does it not make sense to have protections for people who DON"T want to flow ever?

And I believe Compass has 10% protection language for protection rights as well don't they? Wouldn't that mean its not truly bi-lateral?

 

[profit]

Actually, Delta pilots don't hire. Delta does. We at Delta support the fact that management can be choosy with respect to who gets hired and who doesn't. One merely has to look at the last round of hiring to find the desirable/skilled pilots and the airlines from which they came, and one could also look at the airlines whose pilot ranks didn't fare so well in the skilled/desirable criteria.

Ok, so devil's advocate here. If you wish to be "choosy" shouldn't you shut down the non-interview based flow at Mesaba then?

 

[PuffDriver]

Ok, so devil's advocate here. If you wish to be "choosy" shouldn't you shut down the non-interview based flow at Mesaba then?

It's not up to me. It's up to Delta. I think that they have done a great job given our last round of hiring, both in the people that they did hire, and as importantly the people they did NOT.

Funny how all the people who claim not to have interest in Delta spend so much time talking about us.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

ACL, any word from the PTC show last night?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

And the reason family matters some is because DAL and NWA intentionally ignore them when it comes to offering interviews in the first place.

As for time within the family, I'd say the VAST majority of -900 Captains at XJ have 10+ years.

DAL does not ignore it's "family" members. A huge portion of the 700 pilots hired in this last round were from DCI carriers.

You're in a different culture now.


As far as time in the family.... well when you get up well past 10 years, you know where I'm going with the likely quality of the applicant.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Some good stuff at the meeting. Most was just the same ole same ole.

Looks like there might be a contradiction on the MD-90's. Route says they are growth where flt ops says they are replacements.
I believe the route guys since they drive the company.

 

[IFLYIMC]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but I see bigger issues here with the DALPA. I think the first priority is to recall all the NWA furloughs. We still have three great NWA furloughs that were suppose to be recalled last spring and then in the fall of 08. My understanding of the situation is that nobody is giving them any answers to when they will join DA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.
That is why a bi-lateral flow is the best that you can hope for under the current thinking.

That's the same reason it wouldn't have happened back in 2000....even if there had been a pre-nup....

 

[profit]

DAL does not ignore it's "family" members. A huge portion of the 700 pilots hired in this last round were from DCI carriers.

You're in a different culture now.


As far as time in the family.... well when you get up well past 10 years, you know where I'm going with the likely quality of the applicant.

Ok, maybe DAL stopped doing that. But during the last hiring binge, NWA didn't even interview any XJ pilots. A few came back who had previously been hired but never trained.

Think what you want, but you really have no clue about the time and qualification of many of us. There are hundreds of highly qualified pilots with clean records who never got a chance. More than a few had interviews scheduled in the weeks following 9/11, but obviously never got to show up. A lot of good people stuck around, and lots left for CO, WN, Am West, NetJets, etc.

Your assertion about 10+yrs = losers is just not correct.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

DAL does not ignore it's "family" members. A huge portion of the 700 pilots hired in this last round were from DCI carriers.

You're in a different culture now.


As far as time in the family.... well when you get up well past 10 years, you know where I'm going with the likely quality of the applicant.

Yep, no luck involved at all, they just hire the best, even after the government hiring decree.

 

[Superpilot92]

Ok, maybe DAL stopped doing that. But during the last hiring binge, NWA didn't even interview any XJ pilots. A few came back who had previously been hired but never trained.

Think what you want, but you really have no clue about the time and qualification of many of us. There are hundreds of highly qualified pilots with clean records who never got a chance. More than a few had interviews scheduled in the weeks following 9/11, but obviously never got to show up. A lot of good people stuck around, and lots left for CO, WN, Am West, NetJets, etc.

Your assertion about 10+yrs = losers is just not correct.

Thats because XJ has a flow through program. If we hired guys ouside the flow then you'd have guys leapfrogging ohers who were at the top of XJ wanting to flow.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but I see bigger issues here with the DALPA. I think the first priority is to recall all the NWA furloughs. We still have three great NWA furloughs that were suppose to be recalled last spring and then in the fall of 08. My understanding of the situation is that nobody is giving them any answers to when they will join DA.

Good question. How long have they been bypassing? More importantly how long CAN they bypass?

I'm surrounded on the new seniority list by guys who figured their NWA job was not worth returning to. Guess they might like to come back now that they can take my job (or their job back).

Not complaining, just wonder about my station in life when my job is (literally speaking) below people who did not even want the gig, or had something better to do.

Sounds like another displacement bid is in the works to staff the MD88/90. How about we just recall guys into the 88? Of course they probably are holding out to cherry pick ER and 330 spots (that's what I'd do, don't blame them, just saying)

 

[~~~^~~~]

Your assertion about 10+yrs = losers is just not correct.

I agree, but, if they were there for 10 years, it is because they wanted to be there and did not want to jump off one gravy train to be a new hire somewhere else.

No matter how you shake it, the jump to the major costs some serious money and lifestyle disruption. It is a price most of the guys at the majors have had to pay, so there is not a lot of sympathy for the guy who brags that he makes $125K plus a year and demands a job without jumping through the same hoops everyone else had to do.

I'm not arguing against the lifer's logic. The mainline pilot is not automatically a rish man starting in their second year like it once was. It would have taken me ~ more than a decade to break even at the old NWA, so I never applied there.

 

[Fly4hire]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but I see bigger issues here with the DALPA. I think the first priority is to recall all the NWA furloughs. We still have three great NWA furloughs that were suppose to be recalled last spring and then in the fall of 08. My understanding of the situation is that nobody is giving them any answers to when they will join DA.

Anyone who is still out on furlough is because they bypassed recall and took deferral for up to 4 years.

If NWA/DAL is hiring or needs bodies, they can choose to pull their deferral and come back. If there is no hiring and they want to come back they are SOL until their deferral is period is up.

I'm guessing these individuals want their DAL number now, and have to wait out their deferral. They were all advised this was a possibility when taking a deferral.

 

[Schwanker]

Not trying to hi-jack this thread but I see bigger issues here with the DALPA. I think the first priority is to recall all the NWA furloughs. We still have three great NWA furloughs that were suppose to be recalled last spring and then in the fall of 08. My understanding of the situation is that nobody is giving them any answers to when they will join DA.

Are you talking about NWA guys who are flying with Compass? I believe there was some kind of min stay required then would be brought back to mainline.

Schwanker

 

[profit]

Thats because XJ has a flow through program. If we hired guys ouside the flow then you'd have guys leapfrogging ohers who were at the top of XJ wanting to flow.

I'm pretty certain you don't know what you're talking about. What you are saying is that NW MEC told mgmt to NOT interview XJ pilots to keep a leapfrog from happening? Meanwhile, its fine to hire 3,000hr wonder-pilots like you?

I'm calling BS on that one. If you want to join in with false info, maybe you should have some facts to attempt to back it up.

Have another beer Super, and then maybe STFU. I can respect opinions I don't like, but they have to be intelligent first.

 

[PuffDriver]

I'm pretty certain you don't know what you're talking about. What you are saying is that NW MEC told mgmt to NOT interview XJ pilots to keep a leapfrog from happening? Meanwhile, its fine to hire 3,000hr wonder-pilots like you?

I'm calling BS on that one. If you want to join in with false info, maybe you should have some facts to attempt to back it up.

Have another beer Super, and then maybe STFU. I can respect opinions I don't like, but they have to be intelligent first.

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[profit]

I agree, but, if they were there for 10 years, it is because they wanted to be there and did not want to jump off one gravy train to be a new hire somewhere else.

No matter how you shake it, the jump to the major costs some serious money and lifestyle disruption. It is a price most of the guys at the majors have had to pay, so there is not a lot of sympathy for the guy who brags that he makes $125K plus a year and demands a job without jumping through the same hoops everyone else had to do.

I'm not arguing against the lifer's logic. The mainline pilot is not automatically a rish man starting in their second year like it once was. It would have taken me ~ more than a decade to break even at the old NWA, so I never applied there.

You are correct. Lots of 10+yr people decided not to apply to some of the "other" airlines. Some of them included moves that many would consider to be undercutting the rest of the industry. Some certainly did it because they didn't want to commute across 2 or 3 time zones.

The $125k part: well, the average 900 Captain was probably only making 75k last year before post-bankruptcy snapbacks started kicking in. And I didn't hear anyone saying they wanted to leapfrog 1st year pay at mainline either. So maybe I didn't understand your point.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

It was NWA mgmts call... they didn't hire anyone from 9E or XJ.

I remember my friends at 9E not being able to get a call b/c they still worked there...

Mgmt hires pilots... not alpa.

 

[SplitBar]

I'm pretty certain you don't know what you're talking about. What you are saying is that NW MEC told mgmt to NOT interview XJ pilots to keep a leapfrog from happening? Meanwhile, its fine to hire 3,000hr wonder-pilots like you?

I'm calling BS on that one. If you want to join in with false info, maybe you should have some facts to attempt to back it up.

Have another beer Super, and then maybe STFU. I can respect opinions I don't like, but they have to be intelligent first.

It's true Profit. Not a single XJ pilot was invited to interview during the last round of hiring. It was flow or nothing for the XJ NWA wanna-bees

 

[Monster Buck]

I agree, but, if they were there for 10 years, it is because they wanted to be there and did not want to jump .

That is way to broad of a brush stroke and simply not true.

 

[Monster Buck]

It was NWA mgmts call... they didn't hire anyone from 9E or XJ.

I remember my friends at 9E not being able to get a call b/c they still worked there...

Mgmt hires pilots... not alpa.

Actually Profit and Pinchnickle(sorry couldn't help myself) are correct on NWA HR. I have first hand knowledge of that situation. In so many slick words I was told by NWA HR directly that they felt that they were would be pulling enough from XJ with the flow. They were not looking to increase above that.