Compass agreement

[ACL65PILOT]

Of course it is more complicated, but the players know the read story. I was just giving you a little bit of it.
I am sure other will take the time to give you the history.
Fact is that, there are reasons that CPS needs to be first. You may disagree with them and that is fine. I know most of my buddies at EV are upset they are going to have CPS guys senior to them at DAL, but that is what happens. It is what needs to be done for the greater good.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am sure that Occam is here. He is just not posting for obvious reasons.

Wow, they sure got to him didn't they?

I have heard he changed sides on the Compass debate and would like to know his reasoning. We sometimes disagreed, but he is one of the smarter guys on the board.

 

[NuGuy]

Of course it is more complicated, but the players know the read story. I was just giving you a little bit of it.
I am sure other will take the time to give you the history.
Fact is that, there are reasons that CPS needs to be first. You may disagree with them and that is fine. I know most of my buddies at EV are upset they are going to have CPS guys senior to them at DAL, but that is what happens. It is what needs to be done for the greater good.

Heyas ACL,

Great perspective.

I have zero angst with the XJ guys. They have walked the walk many times with the NWA guys.

The previous issues with negotiating flow though are as it was explained to me, by more than one person. I assume their accounts accurate. If they are not accurate, I have no way of knowing.

Profit's account seems to be different. I have no doubt that what went on appeared different to different sides of the table.

But as you can see from the XJ MEC update that Splitbar posted that the "ALPA Unity bleating", as F4H said, by those who didn't want to ante up has already begun.

I would have liked to see an agreement to get the 175s at XJ instead of CPZ. But anything less than the the protections provided by the bilateral flow were unacceptable.

Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.

As I said, if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ. In fact, I'd probably be willing to consider their length of service as part of the equation when they work out who winds up where PRIOR to coming over at the bottom.

Until then, they don't have a lot of chips. More than OH or EV, though....

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FIN you going tonight?? I can tell you what is going on with that later.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Heyas ACL,

Great perspective.

I have zero angst with the XJ guys. They have walked the walk many times with the NWA guys.

The previous issues with negotiating flow though are as it was explained to me, by more than once person. I assume their accounts accurate. If they are not accurate, I have no way of knowing.

Profit's account seems to be different. I have no doubt that what went on appeared different to different sides of the table.

But as you can see from the XJ MEC update that Splitbar posted that the "ALPA Unity bleating", as F4H said, by those who didn't want to ante up has already begun.

I would have liked to see an agreement to get the 175s at XJ instead of CPZ. But anything less than the the protections provided by the bilateral flow were unacceptable.

Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me he feels that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.

As I said, if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ. Until then, they don't have a lot of chips.

Nu

I agree 100%. That is part of the MEC's goal. I am sure that it will be talked about in the next DCI meeting. If EV, OH, XJ, and Pinnacle want to have the rights that we are fighting for, for the CPS guys then they need to sign on to the exact same flow that they have. 100% bi lateral. Do that, and you will have a seat at the table. Until then you are just porturing.

 

[samballs]

I agree 100%. That is part of the MEC's goal. I am sure that it will be talked about in the next DCI meeting. If EV, OH, XJ, and Pinnacle want to have the rights that we are fighting for, for the CPS guys then they need to sign on to the exact same flow that they have. 100% bi lateral. Do that, and you will have a seat at the table. Until then you are just porturing.

Why PNCL, DL does not own them.

 

[clippyrip]

if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ.

Exactly! Want to go to the dance with the prom king then they need to put out.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why PNCL, DL does not own them.

They do not own EV either. IMHO, wink wink, the ones listed will probably be the long term surviving DCI carriers.

 

[samballs]

They do not own EV either. IMHO, wink wink, the ones listed will probably be the long term surviving DCI carriers.

Thanks, just wondering.

 

[profit]

Heyas ACL,


Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.


Nu

You mean you could actually see my smiling face? Or that you could hear my hands clapping together with joy?

And I don't think equal rights imply a need for equal sacrifice?

Maybe you should give up on inference. It doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

 

[NuGuy]

You mean you could actually see my smiling face? Or that you could hear my hands clapping together with joy?

And I don't think equal rights imply a need for equal sacrifice?

Maybe you should give up on inference. It doesn't appear to be your strong suit.

Heyas,

Very well, then, why don't you explain to all exactly what your position is rather than cackling at the legitimate efforts others are making?

Is it your position that the XJ pilots (or anyone else) are deserving of the same (or more) consideration as the CPZ pilots? What do you base your arguments on? Longevity? Seniority? Date of 121 certification of the airline?

If it can be made to happen, it will be done with, or without you. You can participate to the extent permitted by the process, or not. I would like to see you guys play ball, and reap some benefit.

But make no mistake, if you guys don't want to play and it comes down to reclaiming the flying without your participation, then too bad, so sad.

Nu

 

[profit]

Heyas,

Very well, then, why don't you explain to all exactly what your position is rather than cackling at the legitimate efforts others are making?

Is it your position that the XJ pilots (or anyone else) are deserving of the same (or more) consideration as the CPZ pilots? What do you base your arguments on? Longevity? Seniority? Date of 121 certification of the airline?

If it can be made to happen, it will be done with, or without you. You can participate to the extent permitted by the process, or not. I would like to see you guys play ball, and reap some benefit.

But make no mistake, if you guys don't want to play and it comes down to reclaiming the flying without your participation, then too bad, so sad.

Nu

Characterize it however you wish, i.e. cackling, jumping for joy, it doesn't really matter.

Why you are interested in my own personal opinion, I'm not sure.

The flow exists at Compass and Mesaba, period. It would seem fair to include other DCI carriers too though. The existence of flow is merely a by-product of the scope problems exiting bankruptcy.

Give everyone a chance to maintain position via a one-time bid. (if some 20 year Comair pilot doesn't want to go anywhere, don't mess with it).

But I really don't think any of this is going to happen. I doubt DAL management is interested in doing this. I think the operational synergies, efficiencies etc. mentioned in the staple-compass flyer are overstated, and aren't that great of a gain to DAL's bottom line.

I think what the small group of you guys are attempting to do is a nice idea, but this scope monster just seems to be something that may not be killable. And in the process, you are doing a pretty good job of offending a lot of the others who have put in far more years of sweat equity into DAL and NWA operationally than the vast majority of Compass pilots.

 

[BOHICAgain]

you are doing a pretty good job of offending a lot of the others who have put in far more years of sweat equity into DAL and NWA operationally than the vast majority of Compass pilots.

What makes you think that?

Compass is made up of a lot Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, ASA, Eagle, Xjet, ATA, and more. Just because Compass has been around for about 2 years does not mean the pilots have not been put "sweat equity" into DAL and NWA

 

[Raskal]

Overall, I'm a little confused. A couple of you guys have mentioned that for XJ to be "considered" for staple we need to have an identical flow as CPZ.

Um, why? With a staple there is no flow, sooooooo, what the hell are you guys talking about?

PS-I wish the the best for CPZ, as an XJ guy I'm not at all bothered by these initiatives nor do I feel like we're being "wronged" or some whiny bull$hit. Good for CPZ, it's what they wanted from day one, now we just have to see if this has a chance in hell of happening.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There will probably never be a staple. 70%+ of the pilots over here want you to interview.
That is why a bi-lateral flow is the best that you can hope for under the current thinking.