Compass agreement

[ACL65PILOT]

I am sure that Occam is here. He is just not posting for obvious reasons.

 

[Fly4hire]

I have to say, I wish Occam's Razor would come back. He is a mainline guy who I respect. You? Not so much.

To all reading this thread. I recommend you each get the facts on this if youre interested. Not Nu's fiction.

Occam has a lot of entertaining, well informed perspective, but it is hardly free from ulterior interests.

Regardless of the flow history outside of CPZ, I do not think XJ or any other wholly owned DCI should have any consideration for an integration unless they willingly participate in an unrestricted bilateral flow.

While CPZ may be the new kids on the block, they came there knowing the landscape and took the risk.

XJ and CMR pilots went to work for those companies without any notion of a flow through, and to attempt to "me too" on the backs of CPZ without the risk, but simply on the basis of their longevity, experience, and bleeting of ALPA unity will not fly IMO.

It's not how old, experienced, or how much ALPA longevity you have, but what chips do you bring to the table.

 

[profit]

Occam has a lot of entertaining, well informed perspective, but it is hardly free from ulterior interests.

Regardless of the flow history outside of CPZ, I do not think XJ or any other wholly owned DCI should have any consideration for an integration unless they willingly participate in an unrestricted bilateral flow.

While CPZ may be the new kids on the block, they came there knowing the landscape and took the risk.

XJ and CMR pilots went to work for those companies without any notion of a flow through, and to attempt to "me too" on the backs of CPZ without the risk, but simply on the basis of their longevity, experience, and bleeting of ALPA unit will not fly IMO.

It's not how old, experienced, or how much ALPA longevity you have, but what chips do you bring to the table.

I generally agree with your points. But I assume many XJ, Pinnacle, and Comair pilots would be ok with bilateral flows in order to solidify brand scope. It really hasn't been offered though.



My comment referencing Occam had more to do with his facts than his opinions. Whether one agrees with him or not, he doesn't make stuff up. Some of the stuff Nu says happened never did. And publishing bull like that only serves to piss people off and divide the groups.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Flow has been tired before with both of these companies. Both saw what CPS had, it is no secret. XJ did not want that so they they could protected their seats, and OH had a chance.
I am willing to do this for all of em, EV included, but the first and most logical step is CPS.

 

[profit]

Flow has been tired before with both of these companies. Both saw what CPS had, it is no secret. XJ did not want that so they they could protected their seats, and OH had a chance.
I am willing to do this for all of em, EV included, but the first and most logical step is CPS.

I would characterize the summary as being a bit more complicated. But that's fine.

I wish you luck in the endeavor. I'm willing to bet King Richard doesn't want it at almost any cost. And consequently it may be about impossible to pull off.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Of course it is more complicated, but the players know the read story. I was just giving you a little bit of it.
I am sure other will take the time to give you the history.
Fact is that, there are reasons that CPS needs to be first. You may disagree with them and that is fine. I know most of my buddies at EV are upset they are going to have CPS guys senior to them at DAL, but that is what happens. It is what needs to be done for the greater good.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I am sure that Occam is here. He is just not posting for obvious reasons.

Wow, they sure got to him didn't they?

I have heard he changed sides on the Compass debate and would like to know his reasoning. We sometimes disagreed, but he is one of the smarter guys on the board.

 

[NuGuy]

Of course it is more complicated, but the players know the read story. I was just giving you a little bit of it.
I am sure other will take the time to give you the history.
Fact is that, there are reasons that CPS needs to be first. You may disagree with them and that is fine. I know most of my buddies at EV are upset they are going to have CPS guys senior to them at DAL, but that is what happens. It is what needs to be done for the greater good.

Heyas ACL,

Great perspective.

I have zero angst with the XJ guys. They have walked the walk many times with the NWA guys.

The previous issues with negotiating flow though are as it was explained to me, by more than one person. I assume their accounts accurate. If they are not accurate, I have no way of knowing.

Profit's account seems to be different. I have no doubt that what went on appeared different to different sides of the table.

But as you can see from the XJ MEC update that Splitbar posted that the "ALPA Unity bleating", as F4H said, by those who didn't want to ante up has already begun.

I would have liked to see an agreement to get the 175s at XJ instead of CPZ. But anything less than the the protections provided by the bilateral flow were unacceptable.

Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.

As I said, if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ. In fact, I'd probably be willing to consider their length of service as part of the equation when they work out who winds up where PRIOR to coming over at the bottom.

Until then, they don't have a lot of chips. More than OH or EV, though....

Nu

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FIN you going tonight?? I can tell you what is going on with that later.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Heyas ACL,

Great perspective.

I have zero angst with the XJ guys. They have walked the walk many times with the NWA guys.

The previous issues with negotiating flow though are as it was explained to me, by more than once person. I assume their accounts accurate. If they are not accurate, I have no way of knowing.

Profit's account seems to be different. I have no doubt that what went on appeared different to different sides of the table.

But as you can see from the XJ MEC update that Splitbar posted that the "ALPA Unity bleating", as F4H said, by those who didn't want to ante up has already begun.

I would have liked to see an agreement to get the 175s at XJ instead of CPZ. But anything less than the the protections provided by the bilateral flow were unacceptable.

Profit's apparent "glee" that the "all of your exciting staple resolutions got smacked down pretty badly at the LECs." (without bothering to check what resolutions were even offered) tells me he feels that he feels that his group wants equal consideration without paying an equal share of the bill. That I DO have a problem with.

As I said, if XJ wants to modify their flow to %100 bilateral, then I have no problem with them being on a equal footing as CPZ. Until then, they don't have a lot of chips.

Nu

I agree 100%. That is part of the MEC's goal. I am sure that it will be talked about in the next DCI meeting. If EV, OH, XJ, and Pinnacle want to have the rights that we are fighting for, for the CPS guys then they need to sign on to the exact same flow that they have. 100% bi lateral. Do that, and you will have a seat at the table. Until then you are just porturing.