Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[jehtplane]

If you stick to the assigned speeds (or your FO does it thanks to YOUR watching), then there really shouldn't be any goarounds. Controllers are usually pretty good at putting planes in slots, and can tell when spacing is getting tight. Depending on what runway you are on and the associated traffic, the Delta guy could have asked for a slight S-turn at worst. Sounds like you need to brief your FO on proper procedures and not rolling to the end. If you are an RJ or turboprop, the first highspeed is usually the one you should aim for. Larger planes usually go to the second.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well the CRJ 200's have approach speeds as high if not higher than your 757/767, thus the second high speed was the norm. The Delta crew was very unprofessional with their reaction. I can't tell you how many times I have seen American roll all the way to the end of the runway in ATL, What's up with that?

 

[vixin]

You dont need a clearance to enter when being vectored. When operating VFR better be careful. I guess you guys dont see the forest for the trees. In my 18 years operating..Who gives a chit how long. Because nobody operating in class B for 20 years could be wrong about anything.

 

[eaglesview]

Eastern Airlines helped create this mess.....They were one of the first to agree to allow flying to be outsourced with Eastern Metro....Randy Babbitt is on record as saying that was a mistake.....The Eastern MEC didn't want to fly Metros and Be99s...Pot meet kettle..

Everyone is undercutting everyone because ALPA/APA never dealt with scope properly...

Your right that ALPA can't represent both sides now...I suspect the mainline groups will start leaving ALPA so as to avoid the DFR issue....

I hope we do start pulling out of ALPA. As far as the regionals are concerned I have to admit I really don't care. These pilots are shooting them selves in the foot by delaying their movement to the majors. I have my job. (for now)

Again ALPA didn't deal with scope properly??? What have they dealt with properly?

 

[Flopgut]

You've got to be kidding me! I was IMC getting vectors for the approach, assigned altitudes and headings, I didn't need a clearance to enter class B.

I suppose breaking company policy and setting a bad example in front of my FO would be professional?

Get real!

If your FO can't fly safe and be semi predictable at the same time you do the leg into ATL. If you can't do it go to another airport.

Want to display some professionalism?? You should have offered an apology to the controller AND the 757.

Here's the big picture: Tell your PM to call ATL ATC and make it clear to them that your company (NJA I guess) flies Vref from the marker to the rwy. See how long it takes before ATL forces you to change that policy if you want to land there.

Look, you guys are better than this and you've got good equipment. This is really just you taking a moment to secretly relish sending a 757 around, right?

 

[Flopgut]

Vixin is right. You can't exit the bottom of Class B over 200 KIAS.

 

[Flopgut]

....sorry...I missed the "slowtation" part.....I just assumed the DAL crew was making an unprofessional comment about a regional crew.....

I agree with you on a lot of things. Just wanted to call you on this oversight.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You dont need a clearance to enter when being vectored. When operating VFR better be careful. I guess you guys dont see the forest for the trees. In my 18 years operating..Who gives a chit how long. Because nobody operating in class B for 20 years could be wrong about anything.

You said:

I would fill out an ASAP for this. You went below class B and re-entered without being cleared. If flying to a class B ATC will not clear you below it.

You were wrong....ATC can clear you below the Class B....Nothing was ever said of being VFR....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Vixin is right. You can't exit the bottom of Class B over 200 KIAS.

Vixin said ATC won't clear you below the Class B...The original poster said he followed the speed limit...That wasn't the issue...

Vixin seems a little confused about needing a clearance into Class B when IFR....and that ATC won't clear you below Class B when you are IFR....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree with you on a lot of things. Just wanted to call you on this oversight.

....this forum would be boring if we all agreed all of the time.....:beer:

 

[Flybywire44]

Last night while my FO was landing, and ATC put a Delta 757/767 close behind us(slotation). I saw my FO start to rush, and get nervous. I told him it's our runway till we turn off and do things how you normally would. I informed ATC that our approach speed would be 117KIAS.

On the roll out tower told DAL to go around. The response from one of the DAL pilots was an extremely unprofessional grunt followed by mumbling get off our runway. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry to that crew for the inconvenience, but my crew doesn't rush.

It really speaks volumes when my early 20s FO says "that's unprofessional" about a 30 - 60 something Legacy pilot.

Let's try to be more respectful to each other, please.

Okay... I'm not a major airline pilot, but on one occasion I was PF and we picked up as much speed on final as we could to accommodated a DAL777 in trail. They ended up going around when we touched town well above v-ref.

Moments later we got a sarcastic "Thanks ASA..."

 

[Hollywood82]

If your FO can't fly safe and be semi predictable at the same time you do the leg into ATL. If you can't do it go to another airport.

Want to display some professionalism?? You should have offered an apology to the controller AND the 757.

Here's the big picture: Tell your PM to call ATL ATC and make it clear to them that your company (NJA I guess) flies Vref from the marker to the rwy. See how long it takes before ATL forces you to change that policy if you want to land there.

Look, you guys are better than this and you've got good equipment. This is really just you taking a moment to secretly relish sending a 757 around, right?

Go back and read bud. I just said this wasn't ATL, I don't work for nj, approach was ONLY working 4 aircraft to parallel runways, they were advised of the 117KIAS app speed while they were giving us vectors, and DAL has TCAS. This isn't our fault! Get all the facts before you shoot your mouth off, kinda like the guys last night! If anything they owe us an apology.

As for you accusing me of intentionally making them go around, I'm not that kind of person. I like the airlines, I like DAL, and I try to help whenever it's possible. Who says they didn't increase their speed just to cause problems? I don't think that happened, but it works both ways.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Your story is so F'ed up in so many ways it's not even fun.....

First....get over your self....want to talk professional....stop using the term "MY" when '"refuring '"to the aircraft you fly and the follow crewmember you are flying with!......what a tool box!


Want to talk "extremely unprofessional"....look inside "YOUR"flight deck....WTFO!

How does one "refur" to something?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm not sure I get your point about TCAS. It is not an official source for separation unless there is an resolution advisory.

For the record, I had to take a Mooney M20C missed because I caught a Citation on final. A straight wing Citation can go much slower than anyone would reasonably anticipate without a warning.

If the destination is the primary airport within the class B, the underlying 200 knot restriction is usually not desired by controllers. Ask the controller if you are uncertain. Slowing (as even the ATR guys know) can cause other problems.

But Hollywood, thanks for providing more justification for the ATA's and the FAA's efforts to restrict your type operations from the nation's busiest airports. Your crew's actions and the resulting statistics will be used to effectively cancel out any positive effect my donations to AOPA can achieve.

I fly my single engine airplane to Primary Class B airports in support of my business. I make every effort not to get in the way.

Hope you enjoyed your contribution to increasing the cost of jet A, making a few hundred people late and making a few others fill out paperwork as you enjoyed your sense of entitlement to some of the World's most expensive real estate.

As a fellow general aviation pilot please consider my "Thanks" to be intentionally condensending and rude because you are making things worse. Be thankful it wasn't a NWA crew. Make them go missed and they'll call their Cousin, Joey Kneecaps, to meet you by your rental car.

 

[Hollywood82]

I'm not sure I get your point about TCAS. It is not an official source for separation unless there is an resolution advisory.

For the record, I had to take a Mooney M20C missed because I caught a Citation on final. A straight wing Citation can go much slower than anyone would reasonably anticipate without a warning.

If the destination is the primary airport within the class B, the underlying 200 knot restriction is usually not desired by controllers. Ask the controller if you are uncertain. Slowing (as Joe knows in his ATR) can cause other problems.

But Hollywood, thanks for providing more justification for the ATA's and the FAA's efforts to restrict your type operations from the nation's busiest airports. Your crew's actions and the resulting statistics will be used to effectively cancel out any positive effect my donations to AOPA can achieve.

I fly my single engine airplane to Primary Class B airports in support of my business. I make every effort not to get in the way.

Hope you enjoyed your contribution to increasing the cost of jet A, making a few hundred people late and making a few others fill out paperwork as you enjoyed your sense of entitlement to some of the World's most expensive real estate.

Do you care to re-think that one? You make this sound like it was intentional. Do you have SOPs for your Mooney? You're full of it! ALSO speed limits cannot be waived by ATC, they're written in stone.

 

[Whine Lover]

Ultimately...who gives a rat's...?

YKMKR

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

Just tell ATC that you will be flying like pu$$ies on this approach. They then should be able to accommodate you.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You make this sound like it was intentional.

From your description, it wasn't accidental ... unless you are very inexperienced and situationally unaware. FO's leg or not, are you the Captain, or are you not?

 

[Hollywood82]

From your description, it wasn't accidental.

It was legal! Something you have no concept of.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Just tell ATC that you will be flying like pu$$ies on this approach. They then should be able to accommodate you.

Exactly.

Really, you need to let someone know if your flight profile is going to be radically different than anything else stacked in line on the approach.

 

[~~~^~~~]

It was legal! Something you have no concept of.

You mean 14 CFR Section 91.117(c)?

That's funny. OK, Hello Newman. Or you Super Tanker, version 3.

Do you have SOPs for your Mooney?

You 135, or 91?