Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[another cfii]

In the defense of the go-around crew member that sounded rude, I think anybody usually respectful on the radio may do that when you're forced to do something you rarely do, probably at the end of your 4-day rotation, trying to catch a last flight home, etc...

You've exercised your authority as PIC, and the result was a safe flight, so kudos to you and your crew.

On another note, ATL is not really suitable for a/c to fly at 117 kts on final approach speed. ATC will chew you out if you slow from 170 to your Vref at 0.5 mi. sooner than FAF. You should probably let your company knows of this incident, so that your safety dept can relay that info to ATL Tracon, so this go-around won't happen again in the future.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

I hope we'll get approval for this one into PDK at some point:

RNP 02R KPDK

CA1900,

You don't like doing the circle to land to RWY 02R in PDK?! You don't like looking at towers at eye level turning to base and to final?!

Cheers

 

[WNC Flyer]

Flying a CAT II into Frankfurt taught me that adapting to the standard airport flow sometimes overrides company SOP's. RVR 1400 and those Germans still wanted 170 to the OM. We slowed early and advised ATC. They prompty advised us to go around and sent us to the back of the line. It was clear that we weren't going to land until the we played by the local rules.

ATL ATC could have/should have seen this coming and nipped it in the bud.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I dont think you want to get into a battle of who pays more taxes at an airport. You will lose.

Go ahead and think that big money can be kept out of any airport. Whatever makes you feel good.

My point on taxes wasn't a tax (fee) collected on tickets. Big money doesn't buy tickets.

Big money sells tickets.

How did Arpey get down to SJU other other day? It wasn't a boat and it wasn't on AA.

 

[FLYLOW22]

True! Although I never have been asked to fly faster than 170 by ATC going into TEB. If it's visual we hold 170kts till 500ft as per.... you guessed it, the SOP. IMC and the ILS they've worked with us in the past without any problem.

Side note... the Hasbrook Hilton makes you pay for "hot breakfast".... what's up with that?

We call it the "Hanoi Hilton" now. And why does the lobby smell like Burger King???

 

[CA1900]

CA1900,

You don't like doing the circle to land to RWY 02R in PDK?! You don't like looking at towers at eye level turning to base and to final?!

Doesn't even faze me at this point... 5000+ hours of doing that stuff in a turboprop with no autopilot will do that....

Now, watching the machine do a procedure like that one into PDK, basically circling all by itself? That's cool! imp:

 

[Brett Hull]

And don't forget, that guy in the back of the Slowtation going into ATL is probably getting shuttled over to the terminal and getting into a first class (read: high yield) seat in the front section of a 777.

Do you really want to keep him and his little airplane out of the busy airports?

 

[starchkr]

In Lubbock you can do 250 to the marker, taxi straight to the gate and be in the bar in 30 minutes.

Gup

Now come on Gup...that's pushin it isn't it!!! You should be able to do 250 to the marker, touch down, make the first turn off(high speed or not), taxi to the ramp, jump out and run for the van to make the hotel in less than 20!! Oh wait, i don't fly freight anymore...ahhh the good ole days. All that plus at EVERY airport in the nation, not just LBB, but i guess at 3 am no-one cares if you fly arrivals or how fast you fly...i mean heck, they just don't want you to wake them up from their naps.

 

[Pervis]

What's with the assumptions about Citations? I have to be patient everyday as I'm climbing at 300/.80, cruising at .91, and descending at 340/.90, all while dodging Madogs and such.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Pervis: Not all Citations are created equal. That big cabin T37 with JT15's is pokey.

Do you really want to keep him and his little airplane out of the busy airports?

It isn't us, it is the airline transport organization, the ATA. Same folks that battle ALPA on rest regs.

http://www.airlines.org/operationsandsafety/atc/Are+They+Really+Marginal+Users.htm

The statistics that our thin skinned Citation drivers helped generate will be used as further ammunition in the ATA's quest to keep 91 / 135 guys out of "their" airports.

 

[737 Pylt]

10 pages later and this stupid topic is still going on? Wow, this is almost as good as the rjdc debates!

737

 

[FLYLOW22]

What's with the assumptions about Citations? I have to be patient everyday as I'm climbing at 300/.80, cruising at .91, and descending at 340/.90, all while dodging Madogs and such.

Damn right Perv!

There's nothing like climbing out at the same speed as an airliner in cruise, climbing above them by a few thousand feet, leveling out and leaving them in the dust. Never got old in the X.

 

[Deadalus]

If you stick to the assigned speeds (or your FO does it thanks to YOUR watching), then there really shouldn't be any goarounds. Controllers are usually pretty good at putting planes in slots, and can tell when spacing is getting tight. Depending on what runway you are on and the associated traffic, the Delta guy could have asked for a slight S-turn at worst. Sounds like you need to brief your FO on proper procedures and not rolling to the end. If you are an RJ or turboprop, the first highspeed is usually the one you should aim for. Larger planes usually go to the second.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good response.

If you want unprofessional I've got one for you. My last month flying an East US Air plane pulled out onto the runway cleared for takeoff with us on a 4 mile final. After screaming at the East airplane for about 30 seconds tower finally told us to go around. Thats the kind of professionalism you'll find at US Airways.

 

[murfdawg998]

You're right. The Delta crew should have KNOWN, via their experience, that you guys would screw up the system in Atlanta. Their bad.

Hollywood is absolutely right...it's HIS runway not your airlines' runway; even if you are in your hub city which happens to have the busiest airport in the world. ATC should better manage spacing between aircraft and/or communicate better as to what speed you want the aircraft to maintain. Or, better yet, the DAL pilot could have ANTICIPATED this happening, being that he was following a STRAIGHT wing jet. With all that experience 'flying the heavies', he should have known better.

 

[murfdawg998]

Ha!Ha!....now thats funny!

never flown to ATL; but i've never seen this happen at LGA (best controllers in the world IMHO)

 

[murfdawg998]

oh, so i've heard this wasn't ATL....sorry.

 

[PuffDriver]

Hollywood is absolutely right...it's HIS runway not your airlines' runway; even if you are in your hub city which happens to have the busiest airport in the world. ATC should better manage spacing between aircraft and/or communicate better as to what speed you want the aircraft to maintain. Or, better yet, the DAL pilot could have ANTICIPATED this happening, being that he was following a STRAIGHT wing jet. With all that experience 'flying the heavies', he should have known better.

Isn't that what I said?

Anyway, my bet is that the guy slowed earlier than he said he did. I simply don't believe him, and he is appealing to emotions that I don't have bitching about it on FI. The ATL controllers do an outstanding job, and have everything down to the gnats a$$. The problem is when a rookie comes in and throws a wrench into the system. Like it or not, that's what he is. I care not what his specs say. Chances are, if somebody is screwing up the system, it is a corporate guy.

Nonetheless, the Delta crew should have known that he would. Funny, I don't hear the Delta crew on FI crying about it.

 

[b82rez]

True! Although I never have been asked to fly faster than 170 by ATC going into TEB. If it's visual we hold 170kts till 500ft as per.... you guessed it, the SOP.

So if it's visual you can go 170 kts till 500 ft??

I"m surprised you can get slowed to your ref speed by touchdown.

 

[CA1900]

If it's anything like the Excel, it'll slow down almost as quickly as a 1900.

 

[b82rez]

He said that his ref speed was 102 KIAS that day.

Thats 70 knots of slowing in less than 30 seconds. It just seems awfully unstabilized to me. (Since this whole thread was about SOPs, I am just amazed that his allow for this)