Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[FLYLOW22]

Basically, its operations like this that strengthen the case to make certain airports 'airline only'. There are at least 3 other airports in the greater Atlanta area that can more than serve the needs of your Citation. Do us all a favor and fly your SOP's over there.

Well now therein lies the problem...

ATL, was at one time, as small as PDK or other satellite airports.

ATL infrastructure was built using DAL and Eastern money along either tax dollars over the years.

Taxes paid by income, sales, flights, whatever.

ATL today is the conglomeration of decades of growth and development funded by American citizens.

Most of those tax payers fly in on a rented seat in the back of DAL or AirTran. Some fly in the back of their own private jets.

If you wanna base this argument on tax money contributed towards infrastructure improvements at airports... Who pays more income taxes per year? A plne full of FL travelers or someone who owns their own jet?

There is plenty of room guy... some with straight wings need to fly a bit faster for a longer period of time to play nice with the other kids is all.

We go to JFK and DFW on a regular basis too. If there were any other GA Un-friendly airports, I don't know of them. Nonetheless, we have a GA ramp at each with 24 hour access. Why? Taxes.

Oh, that an big money wants to go to ATL, big money goes to ATL.

 

[climb2slow]

Well now therein lies the problem...

ATL, was at one time, as small as PDK or other satellite airports.

ATL infrastructure was built using DAL and Eastern money along either tax dollars over the years.

Taxes paid by income, sales, flights, whatever.

ATL today is the conglomeration of decades of growth and development funded by American citizens.

Most of those tax payers fly in on a rented seat in the back of DAL or AirTran. Some fly in the back of their own private jets.

If you wanna base this argument on tax money contributed towards infrastructure improvements at airports... Who pays more income taxes per year? A plne full of FL travelers or someone who owns their own jet?

There is plenty of room guy... some with straight wings need to fly a bit faster for a longer period of time to play nice with the other kids is all.

We go to JFK and DFW on a regular basis too. If there were any other GA Un-friendly airports, I don't know of them. Nonetheless, we have a GA ramp at each with 24 hour access. Why? Taxes.

Oh, that an big money wants to go to ATL, big money goes to ATL.

I dont think you want to get into a battle of who pays more taxes at an airport. You will lose.

 

[GuppyWN]

All this thread has proven is that they don't call it a "Slowtation" for no reason and that Hollywood aint gonna go fast for nobody by God come hell or high water. I'm a big fan of selective compliance but he's got his convictions and he's sticking to them.

Seems like an alright guy to me - even if he was clogging up the works.

Gup

 

[JoeMerchant]

Seems like an alright guy to me - even if he was clogging up the works.

Gup

....you SWA folks will never be accused of "clogging up the works"......:laugh:

 

[climb2slow]

All this thread has proven is that they don't call it a "Slowtation" for no reason and that Hollywood aint gonna go fast for nobody by God come hell or high water. I'm a big fan of selective compliance but he's got his convictions and he's sticking to them.

Seems like an alright guy to me - even if he was clogging up the works.

Gup

i've never had a problem with a corporate crew. I would say that as a whole they are a professional bunch who do their best with the aircraft they are in. But, 117kts? From the Marker? C'mon Gup!! lol

 

[EMB170Pilot]

What grinds my gears about this situation, is...

You know what really grinds my gears!?

People who live in the 19th century! I mean get with the program people. It's called an automobile!

 

[skywiz]

Seems like ATC might of been partly to blame on this one...

I have flown into Honolulu many times as a mil t-prop and always remembered that we went b@lls to the wall until on base/final and even then we were flying at least 190 until gear speed and then 150 dirty until 1-2 miles or so.

ATC should of done a better job of sequencing the traffic so the 757 wouldn't have to of gone around. At the same time, the citation should be able to adapt to different environments and mabye in that case, the captain should of taken over the controls to get the plane off the runway quicker. (in a safe manner of course)

SW

 

[Hollywood82]

i've never had a problem with a corporate crew. I would say that as a whole they are a professional bunch who do their best with the aircraft they are in. But, 117kts? From the Marker? C'mon Gup!! lol

Accidents that are attributed to pilot error, stem from poor decision making, and inconsistency. SOPs are there to insure that everyone is on the same page. Not following SOPs breeds a chaotic environment which leaves plenty of opportunities for an incident or accident.

Flying faster than the SOPs allow, or rushing could be the one thing that tips the scale. It's better to be consistant. Reference the swiss cheese model, anatomy of an error......
http://patientsafetyed.duhs.duke.edu/module_e/swiss_cheese.html

I follow SOPs. When the SOPs change, so will I. Sorry if I get in your way.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but it's pretty black and white, according to our POI. I'll even buy those DAL guys "iced-cream" to make them feel better.

 

[Hollywood82]

Jet's in MX and I'm sitting in the Hilton for the next few days..... Keep em comming!

 

[GuppyWN]

The horse is dead Hollywood.

Gup

 

[vixin]

Technically, you are right.

Practically, good luck positively locating yourself on the Class B chart for ATL. It's very... unique.

Once ATC vectors you into Class B anyway, they must let you know if they vector you out of Class B.

Pilot/Controller Glossary 101.

Wow. This thread is so dorky.

Where is a great place to get beer in ATL?

Thank you flylow!

 

[Tristar]

I really can't believe you've left this one for me for this long . . . [evil grin]

Plan the taxiway you're going to use and get off the runway! Or land somewhere else!

I thought that's EXACTLY what Delta did! Come on, I'm not the only old coot here who remembers those? If they'd just followed in that grand tradition (and that of getting lost on the NAT tracks, they could have landed with out any problem!

I keed, I keed! Ok, maybe that was a bit harsh, but I just couldn't resist.

On a serious note, to the 'tard who enlightened us with the insight that "TCAS isn't to be used for separation except in a RA." No kidding Einstien, but I can sure look at the display and make an informed adjustment to my speed (within aircraft limitations) when I'm FAF inbound if I'm following slower traffic (ie, use an extra notch of flaps if applicable and reduce my approach speed a bit more).

I would agree that ultimately, the problem seems to be that ATC didn't heed Hollywood's heads up on their approach speed and make a bigger hole for the following aircraft.

 

[Papa Woody]

No surprise here:

A typical Delta pilot thinking the world revolves around his pimply ass.

 

[vixin]

ALSO speed limits cannot be waived by ATC, they're written in stone.

Have you even ever been to TEB. Try slowing before they want you to and you will be vectored to ALB. Even though they have you below the Class B. Happens all the time in TEB. They may not waive it but they sure as heck let you know if you slow down and they dont want you to.

 

[GuppyWN]

In Lubbock you can do 250 to the marker, taxi straight to the gate and be in the bar in 30 minutes.

Gup

 

[Hollywood82]

Have you even ever been to TEB. Try slowing before they want you to and you will be vectored to ALB. Even though they have you below the Class B. Happens all the time in TEB. They may not waive it but they sure as heck let you know if you slow down and they dont want you to.

True! Although I never have been asked to fly faster than 170 by ATC going into TEB. If it's visual we hold 170kts till 500ft as per.... you guessed it, the SOP. IMC and the ILS they've worked with us in the past without any problem.

Side note... the Hasbrook Hilton makes you pay for "hot breakfast".... what's up with that?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Side note... the Hasbrook Hilton makes you pay for "hot breakfast".... what's up with that?

Really??? What membership tier are you in?

I was there 2 months ago and it was free...but maybe that's only for diamond memberships

 

[Hollywood82]

Really??? What membership tier are you in?

I was there 2 months ago and it was free...but maybe that's only for diamond memberships

I'm diamond too. They told me that everything cold was covered by the breakfast pass. Bacon, eggs and all the hot stuff was extra. English obviously wasn't their first language, so who knows.

I'll be there later this week, and check it out again.

 

[Tref]

I don't know why I can't believe all of the jacka$$ responses on this thread, since this is FI after all. But really...

Hollywood, if you advised ATC of your approach speed from the FAF inbound while you were being vectored then it is their responsibility to build an appropriate hole. Sometimes it doesn't work out and it's not always clear who's fault it was.

The comment was unprofessional, but in their defense, it was probably a commuter trying to catch a jumpseat home. I can understand being upset, but it shouldn't have been said on the radio.

Kind of ironic coming from the guys who brought you "we wear hats because we're professional."

 

[ATRCA]

Understood. We were holding 200 to 2NM from the OM, at which point we went flight idle, threw in flaps and gear and slowed to Vapp as per company policy. I can't change company policy. He did a fine job, and I wouldn't have done anything different.

For the record, we flew 280 till 10000, then 250 till underlying class B then 200 to the OM. It was max legal speed all the way.

I think you did the right thing. Its your a/c and your runway. You do the paperwork, you take the responsibility. You did the right thing.