Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[General Lee]

Guess those Delta guys forgot how to do S Turns. ATC is responsible for separation in Bravo.

You can't really do it if you are landing 27L and there are planes on each side of you on 28 and 26R. I guess you would still do it, and then do a "Breakout" maneuver on the PRM... You did know we have simultaneous parallel PRM approaches to 3 runways sometimes, right?

If your final approach speed is 117Kts, and you do that 5 miles out, that is BAD. A heavy jet may be 40 kts faster than that, and there is no way to slow even more. Does ATC need to sequence props or slower planes away from heavies? You just can't do that at ATL, it's called VOLUME. If you can't handle it, then you need to leave the business. ATC is responsible, you are right, but if you slow early between approach freq and tower freq, the guy behind you may not know until he is 2 miles behind you and he checks on with Tower. That is YOUR fault for slowing too early. Keep your speed up until you NEED to slow down for operational safety. Slowing at Depot on the ILS 27L in a prop is wrong.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[starchkr]

Alright, i'll chime in here...

First let me say i have been on both sides of this issue, plus the middle. I have had an airliner go around because of me...well, because of the bird at least(learjet), lost an engine on t/o roll and of course had to abort, airliner went around. Went around in an airliner because another bird was on the runway ahead and failed to clear as instructed by tower. Now for the third...went around(learjet again) for an airliner going the speed of molases on final and the runway.

It's not always in your cards as to how the go-arounds occur, however you can always do more to prevent them from happening. I can remember doing a "go-around" in the lear on short final for a citation...however, instead of going back out for a full approach, we just did a quick 360 and touched down uneventful. I have flown an airliner faster than our book says to keep the flow of traffic going, i have also slowed waaaaaaay down far out from the marker to prevent from having to do a go-around...all we had to do was take a look at our TCAS and see that the bird in front dropped anchor and so we did the same. The company ops tell you to fly a certain speed or profile, however if in the event it is necessary to do something different, you do it, it's as simple as that. If you need to keep it faster you do, if you need to slow down you do. If you don't play by the "friendly" rules, you will soon find yourself at the bottom of everyones list.

I always lived by the rules of get down and get off fast when i flew the lear, however the lear would do that without a problem, i have never flown a slowtation(your words), but i bet it could get off faster than the lear...especially much easier to make the first turnoff versus letting it roll...i mean heck, those brakes and reversers are there for a reason.

I'm not going to call you a dork or make fun of you or anything like that, but i would suggest if you fly into high traffic airports you maybe think about fitting in better with the flow of traffic, it just makes us all happier and then you don't have to come post threads like this on FI.

 

[General Lee]

I've always let ATC know I'll be slow when the big guys are behind me. I've even offered to ATC to slow more to let them by me in the past, and have gotten thank yous.

What grinds my gears about this situation, is that, 1. it wasn't busy, 2. I did advise ATC of our app speed long before being cleared for the app., and 3. there was no need for what was said on the radio.

Just for the record GLee, my FO does a great job, he was doing what I told him to do.

I just wanted people to see this from my point of view, that's all.

When did you slow to your final 117Kt speed? It may have been too early, and since you are saying he was following your lead, maybe it is you who need to manage your speed better. Not trying to bust your ballz, but hey, welcome to ATL, the busiest airport in the world.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FLYLOW22]

When did you slow to your final 117Kt speed? It may have been too early, and since you are saying he was following your lead, maybe it is you who need to manage your speed better. Not trying to bust your ballz, but hey, welcome to ATL, the busiest airport in the world.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Hell, TEB gets "busier" than ATL at times... airspace vs. workload.

When the last time that you guys circled to any runway in ATL?

Go do the VOR-A to TEB circle to 19 in TEB while being above the helicopters on the highway below and below the CAL jets landing EWR above AND missing the rest of TEB traffic... then let's talk busy.

And that's a Monday.

Watch for those TV antennas too BTW.

 

[CA1900]

Watch for those TV antennas too BTW.

I hope we'll get approval for this one into PDK at some point:

RNP 02R KPDK

 

[GogglesPisano]

It's company policy to be Vapp from the OM inbound. What would you do? We have just as much of a right to be there as you. It sucks, but it's life!

OMG. I mean ................ well, oh my Gawd!!! :uzi:

 

[Fubijaakr]

It's company policy to be Vapp from the OM inbound. What would you do? We have just as much of a right to be there as you. It sucks, but it's life!

Maybe, but you have to appreciate the conditions that exist at individual airports. Here's a conversation I heard once:

"Delta XXX maintain 180 to the marker."

"Delta XXX say indicated airspeed."

"150"

"Delta XXX maintain 180 to the marker"

"Our policy is to be fully configured and on speed at the marker."

"Delta XXX, approach clearance cancelled, fly heading 160, climb to and maintain 5000."

"Why?"

"I've got to build you a bigger hole if you're going to fly that slow."

 

[FLYLOW22]

I hope we'll get approval for this one into PDK at some point:

RNP 02R KPDK

Dude! Won't happen for the Ultra but BRING IT!!

Looks awesome and if it helps get in to PDK, it's good juju.

Let's not even talk about getting into 36U... gliders, short, narrow, uncontrolled, 14K terrain within 5 miles, 5,600 MSL pavement...

I'd take a nice 150kt. ILS approach into ATL any day.

 

[GogglesPisano]

.....I just assumed the DAL crew was making an unprofessional comment about a regional crew......

You don't suffer from "victimhood," though.

 

[FLYLOW22]

All this dorky work talk has me stressed out. I'm ordering room service.


Oh Gar-kon!!

 

[climb2slow]

Ouch! We're not paid that badly. haha

Seriously though, this wasn't intentional and I do feel bad, but I make no apologies for following the SOPs. The FO was just doing what I was telling him.

You guys have a fine airline and I wish this didn't happen, but it did, and that crew was extremely unprofessional about the whole thing. That's all.

It was late at night and they were probably tired.

Basically, its operations like this that strengthen the case to make certain airports 'airline only'. There are at least 3 other airports in the greater Atlanta area that can more than serve the needs of your Citation. Do us all a favor and fly your SOP's over there.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I hope we'll get approval for this one into PDK at some point:

RNP 02R KPDK

I thought POCIV was already a fix elsewhere. .. They could name it BOORTZ

 

[Hollywood82]

Basically, its operations like this that strengthen the case to make certain airports 'airline only'. There are at least 3 other airports in the greater Atlanta area that can more than serve the needs of your Citation. Do us all a favor and fly your SOP's over there.

For the 10th time this didn't happen in ATL.

And I would much rather go to a satellite field, since you airline guys think you "own" any class B airport, thought I covered all this.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I thought POCIV was already a fix elsewhere. .. They could name it BOORTZ

I don't think that he needs any more boost to his already HUGE ego. He lost me the day he said ALL United pilots make over $400,000 a year.

 

[climb2slow]

For the 10th time this didn't happen in ATL.

And I would much rather go to a satellite field, since you airline guys think you "own" any class B airport, thought I covered all this.

alright...I see a lot of 'it wasn't ATL' well, where was it. Or was it a equally large airport that would prove my point? Perhaps if it was a smaller airport, you could find a little fault with the controller for his lack of vigilance?