Go Around, BE PROFESSIONAL

[Colonel Savage]

A bud at USAirways was violated on a line check for going below class B in CLT and re-entering without being cleared. You are cleared into the class B with the vectors, if you exit ie: visual, step down early, you can be violated.

Was that the case with the FAA on the jumpseat? I think the issue was exceeding the 200 knot speed limit below the floor of Class B airspace.

 

[Hollywood82]

I would fill out an ASAP for this. You went below class B and re-entered without being cleared. If flying to a class B ATC will not clear you below it.

I flew Citations for years and would have never flown Vapp from the marker in. That is ridiculous in a class B enviroment. Being professional also includes thinking outside the box a little and flying your airplane to help others. While being safe. I realized I was in a slower airplane and would accomadate...no big deal.

You've got to be kidding me! I was IMC getting vectors for the approach, assigned altitudes and headings, I didn't need a clearance to enter class B.

I suppose breaking company policy and setting a bad example in front of my FO would be professional?

Get real!

 

[Soverytired]

Don't the Delta pilots get paid based on "Actual" block-to-block?

Hell, they should have been THANKING YOU.

 

[737 Pylt]

Well since this has degenerated into the usual major/regional pi$$ing contest...

What a complete moron! Since when do the regionals fly citation jets??

1. The only airline that seems to roll all the way to the end in ATL is American.....

And you base this accusation on what?? The rjdc factbook!

2. Only DAL asks for "windchecks" and "how longs the flying".....Why?

Anyone have their retardese translator handy? WTF are you talking about here?

The windcheck is meaningless and carefully listening to the frequency combined with looking at the TCAS can tell you how long the final is......

All this knowledge, and the best you could do was asa?? BF surprise!

3. Mainline pilots seem to miss radio calls more than anyone....

Regional pilots seem to get lost at the airports more than anyone, why is that? More stats from the rjdc factbook!

4. I have had to throw out the anchor when following DAL into ATL in an ATR.....

More lies, eh? You're lucky to go 250 on a descent!:laugh:

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA can't represent both, I do not believe anyone could. Comair and Delta pilots have opposite desires. It is not possible to represent them both. Just look at the RJDC lawsuit filed by Comair pilots.
As far as the DC3 is concerned the 50's are gone. At the time that was state of the art and the majors flew them.

By the way UAL pilots walked off the job in 85 to combat the B scale and I with my fellow EAL pilots walked off in 89 to fight the lower wages being promoted at CAL at the time by frank Lorenzo. Mean while the regionals keep undercutting eachother in a race to see who can fly for less.

Eastern Airlines helped create this mess.....They were one of the first to agree to allow flying to be outsourced with Eastern Metro....Randy Babbitt is on record as saying that was a mistake.....The Eastern MEC didn't want to fly Metros and Be99s...Pot meet kettle..

Everyone is undercutting everyone because ALPA/APA never dealt with scope properly...

Your right that ALPA can't represent both sides now...I suspect the mainline groups will start leaving ALPA so as to avoid the DFR issue....

 

[vixin]

You've got to be kidding me! I was IMC getting vectors for the approach, assigned altitudes and headings, I didn't need a clearance to enter class B.

I suppose breaking company policy and setting a bad example in front of my FO would be professional?

Get real!

Might want to read my post. You did set a bad example of not flying your airplane. Its not rocket science. I guess for some they cant fly unless its in a book somewhere. Situatuions come up everyday where you need to think a little. That was one where you could have taught your FO a little real world flying. Give it up if you cant.

CS no that wasnt it.

 

[Poahi]

If you stick to the assigned speeds (or your FO does it thanks to YOUR watching), then there really shouldn't be any goarounds. Controllers are usually pretty good at putting planes in slots,
Bye Bye--General Lee

That may be true in ATL, but in MSP, it's a numbers game. A few go around's actually save fuel because controllers are operating at the margins on arrival flow. (At least that's what the bean counters say.)

The trick is to space the smaller aircraft behind the larger ones as much as possible or put RJ's behind departing aircraft.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Well since this has degenerated into the usual major/regional pi$$ing contest...


...

No, it's better.

This one transcends Part 121 to Part 135/91/91K!

This is the mother of threads. You will find it all here.

 

[FDJ2]

Your right that ALPA can't represent both sides now...I suspect the mainline groups will start leaving ALPA so as to avoid the DFR issue....

The DFR issue was settled when Dan Ford and his posse threw in the towel after getting spanked by ALPA during the discovery phase of the RJDC's frivolous lawsuit. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[FLYLOW22]

Don't the Delta pilots get paid based on "Actual" block-to-block?

Hell, they should have been THANKING YOU.

With Jet fuel at the prices they are, YEAH... I'm sure this was on their minds.

 

[Hollywood82]

It wasn't busy, this was about 2330lcl, it wasn't ATL, and approach was only working 4 aircraft to two parallel runways. I gave them plenty of notice that we would be flying the approach at 117KIAS.

I'm pretty sure the guys behind me had TCAS, ATC was advised of the App speed. We kept everything legal and safe. I feel bad for the guys who had to g/a, but I make no apologies!

If we were doing a visual, this wouldn't have happened, but we weren't, and it did. All I can say is that I've always tried to keep things moving, but sometimes it doesn't work out.

 

[Hollywood82]

Might want to read my post. You did set a bad example of not flying your airplane. Its not rocket science. I guess for some they cant fly unless its in a book somewhere. Situatuions come up everyday where you need to think a little. That was one where you could have taught your FO a little real world flying. Give it up if you cant.

CS no that wasnt it.

Read my post! This wasn't one of those situations.

And I think I set a great example by not being pressured into rushing during one of the most crucial phases of flight. That's not rocket science man! It's just good decision making, you should try it!

When do you need a clearance into class B?.... VIXIN

 

[JoeMerchant]

Used to happen all the time in LAS. Guys on an IFR flight plan, visual 25L, followed the GS down which took you below class B prior to step down and a violation happened. Then they fixed the app to 25L .

A bud at USAirways was violated on a line check for going below class B in CLT and re-entering without being cleared. You are cleared into the class B with the vectors, if you exit ie: visual, step down early, you can be violated.

(2) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC this is the key, each person operating a large turbine engine-powered airplane to or from a primary airport for which a Class B airspace area is designated must operate at or above the designated floors of the Class B airspace area while within the lateral limits of that area.

If they cleared him below thats fine, but not if he did it on his own.

Vixin....What FARs are you reading....IFR flights don't need a Class B clearance.....In 20 years of flying into Class B's (TCAs) on IFR flightplans, I have never received a "Class B clearance"....

I love Vegas...but I don't things are that much different out there.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

Read my post! This wasn't one of those situations.


When do you need a clearance into class B?.... VIXIN

When you are operating VFR.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well it doesn't have to if you would read the thread...Care to tell me what "regional" flies a Citation?

....sorry...I missed the "slowtation" part.....I just assumed the DAL crew was making an unprofessional comment about a regional crew.....I should have realized that they hold the corporate folks with the same contempt.....

Doesn't really matter....It was an unprofessional comment on the radio and DAL crews shouldn't be throwing stones in this glass house we all work in....