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That there is the rub. Check out the mins required for both. I'd bet there are quite a few AAI FOs the don't meet the mins to even apply to SWA, but they expect relative senority?

I believe 1000 TURBINE PIC to apply at SWA vs 500 PIC at AAI. And a type rating to start class.

I guess this is a non issue.
 
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Beechdriver32 said:
That there is the rub. Check out the mins required for both. I'd bet there are quite a few AAI FOs the don't meet the mins to even apply to SWA, but they expect relative senority?

I believe 1000 TURBINE PIC to apply at SWA vs 500 PIC at AAI. And a type rating to start class.

I guess this is a non issue.
Click to expand...


You're wrong about the 1000 Turbine PIC and you're probably right about the 737 type.

AirTran payed for mine :)
 
You see Dicko, that's the problem. You really don't know the facts and spew what you believe, not believing the truth.

Look it up yourself at http://www.southwest.com/html/about-southwest/careers/positions/pilots.html

I'll post the highlights to help you out.

Flight Experience: 2,500 hours total or 1,500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1,000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the Pilot in command3 (as defined below) is required. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed-wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO, etc. NO other time is counted


As a side, Dicko, I know you're a CAPT now, but curious if you met the mins at SWA when you were hired at AAI? Not that it matters much, just curious.
 
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ASADFW7 said:
There is a reason SWA group is older. It takes longer to get hired there and it is more competitive. I am sure pilots have interviewed multiple times at Airtran to get hired, it just is not as common. This is not a statement for SLI discussion, just an observation.
Click to expand...

And the mins at vorgin america are 1,000 TPIC and 5,000 total which is more than at southwest. Should they get higher relative seniority in case of a merger?
 
Beechdriver32 said:
You see Dicko, that's the problem. You really don't know the facts and spew what you believe, not believing the truth.

Look it up yourself at http://www.southwest.com/html/about-southwest/careers/positions/pilots.html

I'll post the highlights to help you out.

Flight Experience: 2,500 hours total or 1,500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1,000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the Pilot in command3 (as defined below) is required. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed-wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO, etc. NO other time is counted


As a side, Dicko, I know you're a CAPT now, but curious if you met the mins at SWA when you were hired at AAI? Not that it matters much, just curious.
Click to expand...


I'll be happy to answer your question. I think I probably added to some confusion. My fault.

I was talking about AirTran FO's having 1000 121 TPIC. The vast majority did when they were hired (since 2002).

You are absolutely correct about the required minimums for both airlines.

Yes, I had over 1000 121 TPIC when I was hired and met all of the SWA mins. No 737 type obviously.

I was told by both AirTran pilot HR and friends who were writing me letters of rec. that 1000TPIC was the minimum to get your foot in the door. The published mins were the same then as they are now. I'm sure you know that minimum means minimum. Not competitive.

We are about the same seniority. The results will be interesting. I say this with no acrimony

Cheers
 
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If Airtran bought VA would you give them relative? The AAI folks in here have said multiple times that VA doesn't count. Right back at ya!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
Be careful about the "hiring minimums" argument. Most of the pilots hired by AirTran had experience that vastly exceeded the minimums.

You might find that, while SWA's "minimums" were higher, that the average AirTran hire actually had more flight time, especially if SWA hired more fighter types and corporate guys, while AirTran hired a bunch of Delta retirees and legacy furloughees.
 
jball2 said:
If Airtran bought VA would you give them relative? The AAI folks in here have said multiple times that VA doesn't count. Right back at ya!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

VAs still a start up and no where nears being profitable. If they were a profitable entity with desired assets and gk felt they needed them to grow when he felt he couldn't otherwise, then yes, all wn CAs 93 and senior go first then relative to the bottom. Absolutely. The more this system gains traction, the easier the arbitrators job will be. After the SLI remember, Happiness is a personal choice.
 
Ty Webb said:
Be careful about the "hiring minimums" argument. Most of the pilots hired by AirTran had experience that vastly exceeded the minimums.

You might find that, while SWA's "minimums" were higher, that the average AirTran hire actually had more flight time, especially if SWA hired more fighter types and corporate guys, while AirTran hired a bunch of Delta retirees and legacy furloughees.
Click to expand...

Wow-great point. Let's hope for their sake the arbit won't ask for deets on actual hiring times/backgrounds. It's the law of unintended consequences.
 
jball2 said:
If Airtran bought VA would you give them relative? The AAI folks in here have said multiple times that VA doesn't count. Right back at ya!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can't comment on hypotheticals, just history. We were going to offer Midwest relative seniority. Looking at Southwest's history, you were going to offer F9 a staple.
 
I have never advocated a staple and with F9 that was only an opener that never got negotiated. Their's was pretty unreasonable too. My point with the GA comment was to point out to JJ that if we can't ask you guys about VA hypothetical match up with AAI why does he think he can use it with us? Just asking.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 
Dicko-

Ditto- Interesting times! Trying to stay optimistic, but when some of these guys spout off, especially the ones with no stake in the outcome, it gets a bit frustrating. I simply like my job. And want that to continue.

Unfortunately 'fair' is a relative term.

No pun intended.

Cheers-

BD32
 
You won't get an answer on that. That doesn't fit into the AAI realitive seniority mantra.

Same for the question about how a $7,000.00 a month increase in pay won't be taken into consideration from the arbitor.
 
redflyer65 said:
You won't get an answer on that. That doesn't fit into the AAI realitive seniority mantra.

Same for the question about how a $7,000.00 a month increase in pay won't be taken into consideration from the arbitor.
Click to expand...

You want to deal in reality or hypotheticals? If AirTran merged with the 1985 Chicago Bears, would Coach Ditka get the number one spot? What about The Fridge or Sweetness?, they definitely should have better seniority over an AirTran pilot.

You guys are fricking ridiculous, if AirTran were to merge with VA, THEN IT WOULD GO TO ARBITRATION, JUST LIKE WITH SWA. That is the reality, I suggest you start living in it.
 
Ditka would get spots one, two, and tree on the list, my friend.

And, if Ditka were king, Pilots would get catered meals, consisting of a rotating smorgasbord of bratwurst, eye-talian beefs (from Portillos) and, of course, pizza from Giordano's.

The Chicago domicile's union HQ would be at the Snuggery, and the SLI issue would be determined by a random audience at Second City.

Daaaaaaaaaa Bearssssssss!
 
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How is the ATL operation running today? Snow?
 
Beechdriver32 said:
Dicko-

Ditto- Interesting times! Trying to stay optimistic, but when some of these guys spout off, especially the ones with no stake in the outcome, it gets a bit frustrating. I simply like my job. And want that to continue.

Unfortunately 'fair' is a relative term.

No pun intended.

Cheers-

BD32
Click to expand...



Trust me, I get it ..... I think I do anyway. I've tried to put myself in your shoes and I've even tried on an 'empathy suit'. I understand the pride and the defense. I've tried to understand what I would be thinking if I were working at Southwest.

I do not want this to turn into another USAir. For me that would turn a great job into something I would regret.

I think the expansion of your airline will be explosive in the next few years. I understand that my crystal ball is nothing you can hang your hat on, or buy food with.

Fingers crossed. :)
 
I think we all know the arguments, it is hard to wait for the results. The more we put ourselves into the argument back and forth, the harder it is to stay patient. I also recommend using the Ignore List. It works wonders.
 
ASADFW7 said:
I think we all know the arguments, it is hard to wait for the results. The more we put ourselves into the argument back and forth, the harder it is to stay patient. I also recommend using the Ignore List. It works wonders.
Click to expand...

It does seem hard for you to accept "reality" that some people are pushing on here. You'd rather stay in your SWAPA fantasy world.
 
SWA/FO said:
How is the ATL operation running today? Snow?
Click to expand...
The operation didn't run AT ALL out of Atlanta yesterday. Completely shut down. Black ice so bad the shuttle to/from the Atlanta employee lot wasn't running. Crews are stuck out on the road and will run into 1 in 7 problems if they can't get them back today.

They moved some airplanes down INTO Atlanta yesterday afternoon, positioning for this morning's EMO's (Early Morning Originators), trying to recover the schedule some today, but crews are everywhere and Crew Scheduling is just overloaded. For instance, I'm supposed to fly out at 6:15 out of Orlando into Atlanta, but have no CA on my trip anymore. Don't know what he's flying, can't see his screen, but my trip is listed in CA open time yet there's no delay or CXL showing either in my screen or the website. I guess we'll see what happens when I get there.

The union put out a message yesterday that we are aware we've had our differences with management even over recent implementation of the contract, but that this is the worst operational shut down we've had since 9/11, and they urge us to work with the company in whatever way we can for the sake of our passengers and to try to help our employees stuck out on the road make it home.

That's about it; will probably take the rest of the week to fully recover. Gotta go make the doughnuts, ya'll fly safe. ;)
 
johnsonrod said:
It does seem hard for you to accept "reality" that some people are pushing on here. You'd rather stay in your SWAPA fantasy world.
Click to expand...

So a guy makes a post basically saying he knows that he doesn't know how it will all turn out, and we should all just be patient, and you attack him because he can't "accept" the possible outcome that you have deemed the "reality"?!? Very classy. Not.

PapaWoody
 
Ty Webb said:
Ditka would get spots one, two, and tree on the list, my friend.

And, if Ditka were king, Pilots would get catered meals, consisting of a rotating smorgasbord of bratwurst, eye-talian beefs (from Portillos) and, of course, pizza from Giordano's.

The Chicago domicile's union HQ would be at the Snuggery, and the SLI issue would be determined by a random audience at Second City.

Daaaaaaaaaa Bearssssssss!
Click to expand...


Ditka would get the top 3 Captain AND FO slots....unless of course you're talking about a "mini"-Ditka; then I can see your point! :-D
 
Scope you are angrier than anyone here. Go spread your anger with DAPLA, they are the one's who sold you out.
 
In retrospect, this post that was here was not going to serve and good purpose. Edited for hospitality.;)
 
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