well that was quick.....

[NachoMamma]

Really? I am horrified. Seriously??? You're horrified at someone showing conviction and standing firm in their principles even if it costs them monetarily? No offense, but c'mon man...show a little dignity. There are other jobs out there.

In this economy, you would really rather lose your jobs than give in on scope? Yes...absolutely. BTW, "giving in on scope" = losing your job (eventually). The terms are synonymous.

With all due respect, I feel y'all haven't thought this through. I absolutely would rather give in on something (like scope, maybe) than become unemployed. And that is exactly what will happen to you when you give in on scope.

This is not a proposed negotiating position from me, just a philosophical observation. I also feel strongly that most pilots do NOT share your views, although I thank you for expressing them intelligently and civilly. I think you'll find that your view, while shared by most of the former NJI crowd, is not even remotely a majority. The VAST majority of pilots here (read NJA original pilots) are staunchly, vehemently - to the point of willingly seeing the entire operation shut down - opposed to concessions. If you don't believe me, look at what we were able to accomplish in 2004-2005.

Again, this isn't an extremist view (although it may sound like one)...it is a realistic, experienced, "been there done that" view and absolutely is shared by far more than enough of a majority here to dominate any vote. Having said that, the point is moot as the current NJASAP leadership will never allow such a proposal to find its way to a membership vote in the first place.

Personally I'm not worried. If the situation were to degrade to the point of me losing my job due to a non-agreement on scope, I have no doubt that I will find another one.

 

[brokeflyer]

i think the company should start giving concessions, the pilot group appears to be doing their jobs perfectly, so that obviously isnt the problem.

 

[OPECJet]

The company should start giving concessions to prospective owners. Charging 30% above the competition for an inferior product is not how a business grows. If there is 1/5th of a brain left in CMH they'll get serious about that. Right now what's happening with the idiot pinheads that run NJA is flat out maddening.

 

[fischman]

Really? I am horrified. In this economy, you would really rather lose your jobs than give in on scope? With all due respect, I feel y'all haven't thought this through. I absolutely would rather give in on something (like scope, maybe) than become unemployed. This is not a proposed negotiating position from me, just a philosophical observation. I also feel strongly that most pilots do NOT share your views, although I thank you for expressing them intelligently and civilly.

Careful you don't step in the bull crap fellas.

 

[fischman]

Really? I am horrified. In this economy, you would really rather lose your jobs than give in on scope? With all due respect, I feel y'all haven't thought this through. I absolutely would rather give in on something (like scope, maybe) than become unemployed. This is not a proposed negotiating position from me, just a philosophical observation. I also feel strongly that most pilots do NOT share your views, although I thank you for expressing them intelligently and civilly.

To give in to scope IS to be unemployed. Why can't you see that???

 

[Grizz]

Fisch - he thinks that his seniority will protect him and only junior guys will get let go. It's all about him.

 

[fischman]

The company plan is to be the right size for our market, and right now that market is smaller. When the economy improves, the market and NJA (and the other fracs) will be bigger. There is no significant conspiracy or conflict between normal pilots and management, we are just in a flat and sclerotic market right now with uncertain and destructive government actions making things worse.

The "Union" IS THE PILOTS. The eboard speaks for US, executing OUR will.

Are you really that ignorant of how this works?

Be sure to give Noe a recommendation in his search. He won't get one from many others.

 

[fischman]

Fisch - he thinks that his seniority will protect him and only junior guys will get let go. It's all about him.

That's funny. We know it is all about me. I AM AWESOME.

 

[BentOver]

Now for something a bit more proactive...

What are some ways/scenarios... EJM aircraft could be flown by Union pilots?

I ask because it is obviously apparent the intent is to outsource to EJM... If they (management) want to do nothing more than this, is it possible to somehow work out something where it is done with NJA pilots? Maybe another integration?

NOT a CONCESSION to 1.5.4(c), but rather another combining of the seniority list. A reshuffling of the furloughees, and then even if EJM grows, it will be with NJA pilots.... Some EJM pilots would get hosed with a furlough, some furloughees would reap some recall benefits, and then as business grows (NJA or EJM) business would cary on as usual with recalls etc..

PROS/CONS???? Honest question...

 

[t-bone]

Assuming things haven't changed, EJM planes are either owner-managed or charter-managed. We were an owner-managed client when our airplanes were on EJMs certificate years ago, and we hired our own pilots with zero input from EJM. So in that case, NJA pilots would have to be hired by an individual owner to fly that airplane. The owner also reserves the right to say no to NJA sell-offs, which we did frequently when the trips weren't worth the energy. I am not familiar with how charter-managed works, but I think EJM has a much bigger management role, in both staffing and trips flown.