well that was quick.....

[BentOver]

I'm going to make this real simple for you.

There is NO WAY the NJASAP pilots are going to vote in a concession. It simply will not happen. The 495 post they don't want concessions. The bottom of the active list don't want concessions.

IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WB can proceed with his business plans for NetJets with that information.

I agree 100%..and to go even further. It won't even come to a vote. As far as I can tell, Union leadership will not bring any type of concession to a vote. Especially a concession concerning scope.

Unless it helps the pilots, is a benefit to the pilots, or increases the pilots contract, there will be no vote. Every pilot who has a stake in the next supposed round of furloughs (junior SIC's) has simply said Go F%% Yourself to this scope/furlough talk. (atleast everyone I've seen talk about it.)

And now to add insult to injury, junior Captains are in the mix because they are being threatened with downgrades. And we all know that once Captains start being affected, they suddenly start getting more involved and taking a stand. Versus the usual, I've got mine you're just paying your dues rhetoric.

One thing that does make me feel better is I doubt there will be another Union message about being a contractual right to extend...

 

[KiddDynomite]

This stuff truly cracks me up! Let's for one minute stop talking s@!t about NJA, scope, pay and drawing lines in the sand and look at reality. The reality is the people who are our clients no longer have the money to buy. It's that simple. Once we get past that fact then we can talk about the rest. I hate to say the 495 are NOT coming back. It's that simple. Luthi stated the company is going to keep shrinking over the next ten years. I would read that a 30-50% reduction over the next 3-5 years! That's the reality. We can talk all we want but that's the barrel of the gun we're looking down.

I personally think the best thing that can happen is we get sold. Then again there's nothing to sell except a few hangars and a clapped out core fleet. The company is a shell. We don't own 400 airplanes, the clients do. Sure we have the Marquis airframes but they're worth squat.

There's not going to be a turn around here. Wake up and smell the coffee! The whole country is heading for financial disaster and we're just a small portion. The sooner you guys learn that the better and the better you will be prepared.

As far as concessions, we provide valuable skills to the clients, the ones who remain should pay for them. Simple as that. Concessions and continued cuts are not going to save NJA. A change in the model and airplane sales will. I don't see that happening under this management or economy anytime soon.

 

[CE750Driver]

This stuff truly cracks me up! Let's for one minute stop talking s@!t about NJA, scope, pay and drawing lines in the sand and look at reality. The reality is the people who are our clients no longer have the money to buy. It's that simple. Once we get past that fact then we can talk about the rest. I hate to say the 495 are NOT coming back. It's that simple. Luthi stated the company is going to keep shrinking over the next ten years. I would read that a 30-50% reduction over the next 3-5 years! That's the reality. We can talk all we want but that's the barrel of the gun we're looking down.

I personally think the best thing that can happen is we get sold. Then again there's nothing to sell except a few hangars and a clapped out core fleet. The company is a shell. We don't own 400 airplanes, the clients do. Sure we have the Marquis airframes but they're worth squat.

There's not going to be a turn around here. Wake up and smell the coffee! The whole country is heading for financial disaster and we're just a small portion. The sooner you guys learn that the better and the better you will be prepared.

As far as concessions, we provide valuable skills to the clients, the ones who remain should pay for them. Simple as that. Concessions and continued cuts are not going to save NJA. A change in the model and airplane sales will. I don't see that happening under this management or economy anytime soon.

Please give a reference to the above statement of Luthi "stating the company is going to keep shrinking the next 10 years". I have never heard or read that. Or did you make it up?

 

[KiddDynomite]

He posted it in a thread on the union site. I forget which one but it was about a week and half or two weeks ago. No BS! That's been the company plan all along. I'm just the messanger!

 

[CE750Driver]

He posted it in a thread on the union site. I forget which one but it was about a week and half or two weeks ago. No BS! That's been the company plan all along. I'm just the messanger!

I just searched every Luthi post on the Union message board since 9/1/11. There is nothing remotely close to what you have posted.

 

[BentOver]

The Union also questioned if the Globals and Phenoms will show up..... Were 100% certain we would furlough last year.... And recently were posting on our side that it was looking like things were turning around...

No one knows for sure what is going to transpire, not the Union leadership nor NJA management....

If we all took what has been said on the Union board for 100%...we would all be resigning our seniority for the first job that came along.

Both sides need something...

Union needs unity..so they highten the urgency of the situation..Probably over playing every scenario.

Managment wants concessions...so they instill as much fear as possible.

It's the rational persons job to recognize this and make as an informed decision as possible. Only taking so much of what is said as absolute truth. It's called thinking for yourself... And coming to your own conclusions

 

[G4dude]

While I'm certainly not a "union crazy" (and yes, I know the type you're referring to), I would gladly see this entire company driven into liquidation resulting in the loss of your job and mine before I'd vote to allow ANY type of concession (especially scope relief). I think the vast majority of pilots here would agree with that.

Really? I am horrified. In this economy, you would really rather lose your jobs than give in on scope? With all due respect, I feel y'all haven't thought this through. I absolutely would rather give in on something (like scope, maybe) than become unemployed. This is not a proposed negotiating position from me, just a philosophical observation. I also feel strongly that most pilots do NOT share your views, although I thank you for expressing them intelligently and civilly.

 

[G4dude]

Let the company worry about making money. If they can't do so without outsourcing our jobs, then the place isn't worth saving anyway.

We had better ALL worry about our employer making money, Imac. Especially in this economy which appears to be sliding back into recession...

 

[G4dude]

Bingo...The company will not simply dissolve. At some point it will be worth so much less than what WB has invested that selling may be his best option. Hopefully RTS would buy it back, fire all the idiots in Bridgeway, bring his guys back in, and regrow the company... At the very least someone buys us that wants to grow the company again.

Either way, almost all options are better than the sorry affairs going on at Bridgeway these days

I have been here 11 years, and come from NJI, where management was excellent, and am curious what behaviors in Columbus are idiotic. I agree they could do better in some areas of day to day operational efficiency, but do you have some specifics about idiocies? Now, having RTS own and run us again? I could get behind that notion!

 

[G4dude]

He posted it in a thread on the union site. I forget which one but it was about a week and half or two weeks ago. No BS! That's been the company plan all along. I'm just the messanger!

The company plan is to be the right size for our market, and right now that market is smaller. When the economy improves, the market and NJA (and the other fracs) will be bigger. There is no significant conspiracy or conflict between normal pilots and management, we are just in a flat and sclerotic market right now with uncertain and destructive government actions making things worse.

 

[G4dude]

The Union also questioned if the Globals and Phenoms will show up..... Were 100% certain we would furlough last year.... And recently were posting on our side that it was looking like things were turning around...

No one knows for sure what is going to transpire, not the Union leadership nor NJA management....

If we all took what has been said on the Union board for 100%...we would all be resigning our seniority for the first job that came along.

Both sides need something...

Union needs unity..so they highten the urgency of the situation..Probably over playing every scenario.

Managment wants concessions...so they instill as much fear as possible.

It's the rational persons job to recognize this and make as an informed decision as possible. Only taking so much of what is said as absolute truth. It's called thinking for yourself... And coming to your own conclusions

I am in "fear", but it is not instilled by management, but by the economy. There is not a state of war between pilots and the company. There is, apparently, a war between the union and management. I feel the union is generally idiotic, with all due respect to the members.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Is there really people today that believe that any concession will help?


Two quotes come to mind:


"Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it." and " Its not personal, Its just business."

I still am searching for am example of a pilot group that didn't get their butt handed to them later or had not taken several steps back when giving any concession to their contract. If there is one out there please let me know! I know this has been said over and over, but all of what is happening is right out of Leavitt's book: The cozy meetings, the casual tossing of the threat of furlough or no deliveries if you dont do this or that.....

We have to remember that this is all the pre-game,the big show is coming later. Don't take it personally, don't fall for silly threats, stand your ground on Scope. And for God's sake, Fly the damned airplane and enjoy the job and the interaction with our owners. That part still hasn't changed.

All this from a Idiotic Union Crazy. (I've been called worse....)

 

[imacdog]

Apparently there is one that thinks it would help. G4 obviously hasn't been paying attention to what happened at the airlines when those pilots gave in to scope demands. Pity, really. Fortunately the ignorant can be educated, I just hope they don't learn the hard way in this case.

 

[doh]

The company plan is to be the right size for our market, and right now that market is smaller. When the economy improves, the market and NJA (and the other fracs) will be bigger. There is no significant conspiracy or conflict between normal pilots and management, we are just in a flat and sclerotic market right now with uncertain and destructive government actions making things worse.

Boom goes the dynamite! Do you have an excessive amount of unsold shares not covered by card sales? Then you'll shrink. Are you selling a lot of shares and cards? Then you'll expand. Look at that and your crystal ball has a chance of being accurate. All the rest is just rhetoric. I almost forgot to say, never give them scope! You will never benefit from outsourcing your jobs.

 

[BentOver]

G4 just won another golden vagina..Congratulations dude...... Time to get off your knees buddy. Hansell finished.... Don't forget to wipe your face.