SWAPA looking to capture more Capt seats

[TahoeBoarder]

Do you guys ever stop and think that SWA Mgmt crafted the SLI and got exactly what they wanted? Maybe Mgmt never wanted a pilot to go directly to a Capt seat at SWA? Maybe they wanted everyone to be an FO for at least a short period of time?
From a CEO point of view...
Argue on but nothing is gonna change--mergers suck!

 

[Tripower455]

Oh really? So Gary gave us exactly what we wanted - seniority, right? If what you say is correct, then you are just as ill/mis-informed as Scoreboard. If we got seniority, then why am I still taking a 3 year seniority hit? Answer that.

You negotiated AND overwhelmingly agreed to a deal that got you more seniority than SL9. How is that mis informed?

As for the MEC, they did exactly what they were supposed to do...they voted down an SLI that was blatently unfair to the ATN pilots in terms of seniority loss.

So, where's the beef? I was responding to the pay issue that fam62 mentioned. You had pay parity in the deal that was turned down.

And let us not forget that seniority is everything, no matter what airline you work for.

Exactly. You guys wanted more seniority, and you got it, which means we lost more. Someone had to give, and we gave. Sorry it wasn't enough for you. Shoulda voted no.

I'll bet if we took a poll of every pissed off pilot on the 2 lists, the pissed off SWA guys would outnumber the pissed off AT guys by a large margin. This deal isn't good for ANY of us, except the few SW FOs that will get an upgrade........

Sure, the pay was there in SLI 1, as it should be, but that never should have been an issue. Same pay for same work. Got a problem with that? SWAPA committed a cardinal sin by allowing a B-scale on property.

I completely agree about the pay scale thing, but SWApA had less say in this matter than AT did. That was GARY'S doing through and through. You guys told him that they didn't care about the pay, so he gave you more seniority and took the pay (that you didn't care about) away.

Where the MEC did screw up was in allowing SLI 2 to go to a membership vote. If SLI 1 was so disgusting that the MEC voted it down, why wouldn't you vote down SLI 2 which was even more abhorrent? They should have said, "F-this, we're going straight to arbitration" and let a neutral 3rd party decide this.

We vote yes for anything put in front of us, which explains our 84%. If SL10 was so heinous, why did you guys vote for it by 84%?


The bottom line? The AT deal is going to go down in history as the biggest mistake that SWA has ever made.

It's not yours or my fault. Gary did this to ALL of us.

This place has gone into free fall in the last year or so.

Believe me, you guys aren't the only ones getting screwed in this mess!

 

[FlyinGuy]

AT Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

SWA Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

All of us have our own reasons to be po'ed at this deal. AT looks at it one way and SWA pilots look at it a different way. Guess what....here is a little secret....no one, and I mean no one is going to convince the other side that their plight is more significant. So that in mind....gripe, moan, and complain all you want but remember that all you are doing is raising your own blood pressure. So you can join the team, re-shape what the new team is going to look like, or take some other path. Bottom line is the deal is in place and nothing is going to change it. You can come to work with a smile or a frowny face....it is your career.

Enjoy your day ladies....

 

[Ty Webb]

AT Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

SWA Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

All of us have our own reasons to be po'ed at this deal. AT looks at it one way and SWA pilots look at it a different way. Guess what....here is a little secret....no one, and I mean no one is going to convince the other side that their plight is more significant. So that in mind....gripe, moan, and complain all you want but remember that all you are doing is raising your own blood pressure. So you can join the team, re-shape what the new team is going to look like, or take some other path. Bottom line is the deal is in place and nothing is going to change it. You can come to work with a smile or a frowny face....it is your career.

Yup.... :beer:

 

[Tripower455]

AT Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

SWA Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

All of us have our own reasons to be po'ed at this deal. AT looks at it one way and SWA pilots look at it a different way. Guess what....here is a little secret....no one, and I mean no one is going to convince the other side that their plight is more significant. So that in mind....gripe, moan, and complain all you want but remember that all you are doing is raising your own blood pressure. So you can join the team, re-shape what the new team is going to look like, or take some other path. Bottom line is the deal is in place and nothing is going to change it. You can come to work with a smile or a frowny face....it is your career.

Enjoy your day ladies....

Exactly!

 

[Quimby]

AT Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

SWA Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

All of us have our own reasons to be po'ed at this deal. AT looks at it one way and SWA pilots look at it a different way. Guess what....here is a little secret....no one, and I mean no one is going to convince the other side that their plight is more significant. So that in mind....gripe, moan, and complain all you want but remember that all you are doing is raising your own blood pressure. So you can join the team, re-shape what the new team is going to look like, or take some other path. Bottom line is the deal is in place and nothing is going to change it. You can come to work with a smile or a frowny face....it is your career.

Enjoy your day ladies....

Spot on.

 

[ngsp]

AT Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

SWA Pilot: Blah, Blah, Blah

All of us have our own reasons to be po'ed at this deal. AT looks at it one way and SWA pilots look at it a different way. Guess what....here is a little secret....no one, and I mean no one is going to convince the other side that their plight is more significant. So that in mind....gripe, moan, and complain all you want but remember that all you are doing is raising your own blood pressure. So you can join the team, re-shape what the new team is going to look like, or take some other path. Bottom line is the deal is in place and nothing is going to change it. You can come to work with a smile or a frowny face....it is your career.

Enjoy your day ladies....

somebody that actually gets it. i plan on doing just that. i will be pulling gear with weekends, holidays and any other day i care to take off while the new captains are sitting reserve till he!! freezes over. i am truly not bitter anymore. i have found my happy place. this is going to be one great part time job.

 

[scoreboardII]

You're an idiot

Really. I'm not the one who voted for lower wages.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well SWAPA if you get forced into concessions, it is still a pay raise for us b-scale trannies. We are 1740 pilots that have been trashed like second class pilots. If SWAPA ends up in a protracted fight with management in negotiations, say bye bye to us FAG pilots supporting SWAPA. We may only be 25% your size now, but every year many more SW pilots retire than Airtran. Hence every year you will have a larger % of Airtran pilots. I cant believe that 10 months after the SLI is done SWAPA continued every divisive tactic to fan the flames. I look forward to retirements knowing that our influence grows.

Dude, you need to take a math class, as time goes AT pilot percentage of group will shrink, SWA pilots will be hired to replace ALL retirements. Maybe thats why you voted for lower wages?

 

[Lear70]

Chances are the guy sitting to your left had next to nothing to do with putting you in your current situation and he probably just wants to enjoy his Starbucks and get to the hotel on time (or if it's a PM trip, anywhere less than 2 hours late).

True story.

 

[Lear70]

The problem, is they can't have any tails painted other than SWA post Jan 1 2015, or it violates our codeshare.

I'm pretty sure SWAPA would give them a 6-month extension in exchange for the SWA pilots flying them and capturing those CA seats if that was the only way to do it without costing the company millions by parking the planes.

Same end result, SWAPA pilots get all the AAI CA seats.

 

[Lear70]

Lets put this little fallacy to bed, the scale of wages AT is making until they transition on Jan 1 2015 was agreed to by AT pilots, NOT SWAPA.

Yet every time we talk about getting SWA rates now, SWAPA objects...?

Non-sequitur, sir.

 

[vv100]

If the only way you can get a left seat, is by stealing it.. It's kinda like rape isn't it ? But if you're still gonna be happy knowing you had to take it and you didn't earn it. Then enjoy it. You guys must already be a little numb after stealing the Morris seats ? Or, do you just raise the lube strength, and use earplugs ?

Somebody needs to tell Steve Chase that it's not a B Scale, it would be a C Scale. He and his Sugar Daddy already handed the B Scale to AirTran.

Culture.

Oh I already earned my seat Dick-O.
You see I walked through the front door.
I did not hid out at a dirt bag, backwater, scab-ridden, $hithole airline wishing I could get a decent job, then slither under the back door, Dick-O.
So each and every one of you Tranny's puff out your chest and scream at the world how you are going to punish RSW pilots.
It's amusing. Comical even.
There is a reason you are, and FOREVER will be, treated like a second class citizen, Dick-O.

 

[Lear70]

Gary helped you out, and gave you exactly what you asked for. SWApA just touted the company line, as usual.

He gave us Relative Seniority? Wow, must have missed the memo.

The 717s leaving hoses ALL of us. Period.

True story. Such is life.

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh I already earned my seat Dick-O.
You see I walked through the front door.
I did not hid out at a dirt bag, backwater, scab-ridden, $hithole airline wishing I could get a decent job, then slither under the back door, Dick-O.
So each and every one of you Tranny's puff out your chest and scream at the world how you are going to punish RSW pilots.
It's amusing. Comical even.
There is a reason you are, and FOREVER will be, treated like a second class citizen, Dick-O.

Wow! You are obviously a very angry and miserable person. Have a nice stroke now, y'hear? :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Nevermind...

Some people need to switch to decaf. We can have a polite disagreement without slinging poo.

Or maybe we just need a death cage matchup? Some midget hotties in bikinis get to drag off and render first aid to the losers?

Wait, did I just say midget hottie in the same sentence?

 

[SWA Bubba]

somebody that actually gets it. i plan on doing just that. i will be pulling gear with weekends, holidays and any other day i care to take off while the new captains are sitting reserve till he!! freezes over. i am truly not bitter anymore. i have found my happy place. this is going to be one great part time job.

You know, normally I'd take your word for it that you've found your happy place; however, your avatar fairly screams otherwise....

Bubba

P.S. Ooops, forgot! Blah, blah, blah...

 

[freightdogfred]

It's quite obvious no one's changing anyone's mind here. I think even the most myopic WN pilot on this forum can agree that as has been posted, SWA mgmt has carefully crafted a strategy to circumvent MB, legislation designed specifically to prevent the shafting of one group by another. The only reason it passed by 84% is the group was voting to keep their job, it's plain an simple. Now, the wedge between the 2 group is quite evident, perhaps by design. Divide an conquer is the age old strategy. Even the Facebookers are a lil disillusioned at this point. Me? I don't give a rat's azz, it is what it is. To the victor goes the spoils.

Gear down, yes sir
It must have been a gust of wind, sir
I'll take the fat one, sir

I already got my callouts memorized


messueris vestro, quid seminat, seminare

 

[SWA717]

It's quite obvious no one's changing anyone's mind here. I think even the most myopic WN pilot on this forum can agree that as has been posted, SWA mgmt has carefully crafted a strategy to circumvent MB, legislation designed specifically to prevent the shafting of one group by another. The only reason it passed by 84% is the group was voting to keep their job, it's plain an simple. Now, the wedge between the 2 group is quite evident, perhaps by design. Divide an conquer is the age old strategy. Even the Facebookers are a lil disillusioned at this point. Me? I don't give a rat's azz, it is what it is. To the victor goes the spoils.

Gear down, yes sir
It must have been a gust of wind, sir
I'll take the fat one, sir

I already got my callouts memorized


messueris vestro, quid seminat, seminare

I would have preferred Chief Freight Dog's analysis..

 

[dicko]

Oh I already earned my seat Dick-O.
You see I walked through the front door.
I did not hid out at a dirt bag, backwater, scab-ridden, $hithole airline wishing I could get a decent job, then slither under the back door, Dick-O.
So each and every one of you Tranny's puff out your chest and scream at the world how you are going to punish RSW pilots.
It's amusing. Comical even.
There is a reason you are, and FOREVER will be, treated like a second class citizen, Dick-O.

Mmmmm. The butthurt is strong with this one. There's only one way that somebody gets this angry; it must be personal. A women perhaps ? Yes, that's it. A Tranny had your women. It won't wash off you know. Ever.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I'll take the fat one, sir

See that is the spirit!!! But are you willing to give up the fat one for the old one? That is showing real "LUV"!!!

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh I already earned my seat Dick-O.
You see I walked through the front door.
I did not hid out at a dirt bag, backwater, scab-ridden, $hithole airline wishing I could get a decent job, then slither under the back door, Dick-O.
So each and every one of you Tranny's puff out your chest and scream at the world how you are going to punish RSW pilots.
It's amusing. Comical even.
There is a reason you are, and FOREVER will be, treated like a second class citizen, Dick-O.

At least Dick-O didn't have to buy his own type rating as 99% of SWA pilots have, and continue to have.

 

[freightdogfred]

See that is the spirit!!! But are you willing to give up the fat one for the old one? That is showing real "LUV"!!!

Fat, old, sick,weak..18 to 80, blind, crippled or crazy

 

[ngsp]

You know, normally I'd take your word for it that you've found your happy place; however, your avatar fairly screams otherwise....

Bubba

P.S. Ooops, forgot! Blah, blah, blah...

sorry, i had not even thought of the avatar. i put it up during contract talks years ago and i also have a 15 pound cat. i thought it was funny. maybe it is time for a new one. i will look around for something having to do with my first love of helicopters.

edit. thats better. my turbine helicopter on my helipad at home. this is my escape from all the blah, blah, blah.

 

[scoreboardII]

Yet every time we talk about getting SWA rates now, SWAPA objects...?

Non-sequitur, sir.

Lear, really? It's not non-sequitur.

The arguments salient point is there was a negotiation each union participated in to get everything they could.

A deal is a deal.

Once everyone agreed to their side, thats the deal.

We can't all of a sudden decide to pay our FO's bypass pay as your CA's come over as senior FO's displacing our guys West.

You guys can't try to squeeze the baloon and try to get more money cause it 1) Takes to long 2) isn't what we thought, 3) isn't fair, 4) hurts more.

Sorry, SWAPA has every right after the deal to ensure if your side gets money, we get money, and since SWA won't pay for both, neither gets it.

 

[PanPan]

Lear, really? It's not non-sequitur.

The arguments salient point is there was a negotiation each union participated in to get everything they could.

A deal is a deal.

Once everyone agreed to their side, thats the deal.

We can't all of a sudden decide to pay our FO's bypass pay as your CA's come over as senior FO's displacing our guys West.

You guys can't try to squeeze the baloon and try to get more money cause it 1) Takes to long 2) isn't what we thought, 3) isn't fair, 4) hurts more.

Sorry, SWAPA has every right after the deal to ensure if your side gets money, we get money, and since SWA won't pay for both, neither gets it.

If SW came to the FL guys and said: "This provision in the ALPA contract with FL is preventing us from operating AirTran the way we would like to. We would like relief." It sounds like you would expect to get paid if the FL guys got compensated for giving relief? Flipping things around, lets say SW section 6 opens up and you guys get a new contract prior to 2015 which includes signing bonuses of some kind. I doubt you would expect FL guys to get the same signing bonus even tho its a change to what your pay would be under the "deal"? I know I wouldn't. We both have the right to amend our individual contracts at our own airline. If the FL contract is amended you don't have any rights to "get what we get" just as we don't have any rights to "get what you get" as long as we are separate.

 

[vixin]

Flipping things around, lets say SW section 6 opens up and you guys get a new contract prior to 2015

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Damn thats funny right there. Our union wont allow that to happen they will drag it on and on and on..

 

[FlyinGuy]

You got that right vixin! The longer the section 6, the more trip pull for all the insiders.

 

[Lear70]

If SW came to the FL guys and said: "This provision in the ALPA contract with FL is preventing us from operating AirTran the way we would like to. We would like relief." It sounds like you would expect to get paid if the FL guys got compensated for giving relief? Flipping things around, lets say SW section 6 opens up and you guys get a new contract prior to 2015 which includes signing bonuses of some kind. I doubt you would expect FL guys to get the same signing bonus even tho its a change to what your pay would be under the "deal"? I know I wouldn't. We both have the right to amend our individual contracts at our own airline. If the FL contract is amended you don't have any rights to "get what we get" just as we don't have any rights to "get what you get" as long as we are separate.

Exactly right.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless the gander is getting something extra, then screw the goose.

It really is disingenuous... "We want anything you get, even though you're getting nearly everything you were promised taken away."

I shake my head that it's this hard of a concept for people to grasp, and I've pretty much given up on any kind of "meeting of the minds". We're second-class citizens, be grateful for what you've been given, shut up and color.

Got it.

JAFFO

 

[TahoeBoarder]

"Nearly everything you were promised taken away?"