SWAPA looking to capture more Capt seats

[dicko]

Stay classy Tranny.

Thanks for the left seat.

Biatch.

If the only way you can get a left seat, is by stealing it.. It's kinda like rape isn't it ? But if you're still gonna be happy knowing you had to take it and you didn't earn it. Then enjoy it. You guys must already be a little numb after stealing the Morris seats ? Or, do you just raise the lube strength, and use earplugs ?

Somebody needs to tell Steve Chase that it's not a B Scale, it would be a C Scale. He and his Sugar Daddy already handed the B Scale to AirTran.

Culture.

 

[Flyer1015]

Some of you SWA guys make me laugh. Truly classless. Of course, the entire bet/gamble is based on the assumption that SWA will lead in their payrates and work rules. More likely, over the next 10 years as the economy stays nimble and oil high, SWA will "right" itself back to industry average. About the only good thing Airtan guys have is looking forward to SWA pay/benefits. If those are diminished in any way, the whole point is lost. Personally, over the next 10 yrs, I wouldn't touch SWA with a 10 foot pole. More and better opportunities at the legacies with retirements.

 

[dicko]

I don't get why there are pilots saying they were deceived by management about the 717s staying?.

Which part of - They made all AirTran pilots carry out a master bid for 717 Captain and FO that included a new 717 Base. At the same time denying they were trying to sell off the 717s, as they were actively selling them ?

Did you not understand ?

 

[scoreboardII]

We told SWAPA this back at the conclusion of negotiations. Specifically, during the 2nd day of negotiations, Frank made the off-handed comment to Russ M asking how much management was going to expect back from SWAPA for carrying their water for them. Their response was, of course, "we're just trying to get a fair agreement", but towards the end of that exchange, they intimated that they would, indeed, be reminding SWAPA of that during Sec 6.

Later that week, at the post-negotiations cocktail hour at the bar before dinner, Frank asked them if they were prepared for the give-backs the company was going to expect as a result of carrying their water for them during negotiations. They seemed a little shocked. Yet here we are.


Good for SWAPA.


Knew this was coming... They will use the excuse that they need to "streamline" the benefits metrics for all employee groups, and not have different policies for different labor groups.


Also not a shocker. Welcome to a more traditional labor relationship with management. I believe they've been planning on moving this direction for a while. The days of industry-leading pay are likely over, with the lack of a clear cost advantage elsewhere, there will be considerable pressure to keep wages in-line with other SNB rates at other Majors (if not lower) as their bankruptcy contracts are re-negotiated.


Had an interesting discussion along these lines with Chuck M and Mike V at the employee appreciation party in LAX last month. While they didn't come out and say this is what they planned to do, they alluded to it heavily, asking the AAI pilots in attendance what would they think of wearing the SWA uniform on the AAI side of the partition, etc.

Remember what I said 6 months ago about the language in the SLI basically making all AAI pilots SWA pilots by virtue of the 1/1/15 date, single carrier representation, and everyone being on the SWA CBA at that date?

That's exactly what they intend to do, and it sounds like they've gotten the FAA to bite off on the idea of "flipping the switch" for the remaining pilots on 12/31/14, similar to what Delta and NWA did.

For the remaining 717 pilots it'll be a non-issue, simply more FOM alignment bulletins, a PC over the SWA FOM for the CA's, and a SWA I.D. issued.

We'll see what they do for the remaining 737 pilots, but if there are still unconverted 737's at AAI on 1/1/15 (estimates with the conversion schedule look like no more than 10 aircraft remaining on that date if the res system comes up close to on-schedule), they could simply send those 150-200 pilots home with pay at guarantee for 2-3 months (75 per month through class is doable if they use the early a.m. sim sessions) while they put a Southwest sticker on the planes until they can get the last of them through conversion and SWAPA pilots fly them.

Welcome to the first airline merger/acquisition of two non-bankruptcy airlines that has ever resulted in NOT A SINGLE CAPTAIN SEAT being retained by an otherwise healthy and profitable airline.

Unfortunately for us, now that this playbook is out there for management to do an end-run around McCaskill-Bond, future acquisitions by SWA will probably go immediately to the NMB seeking protection and assistance with the integration timeline and commitment, rather than signing a Process Agreement, making the entire thing tamper-proof by management and, thus, getting to go to arbitration without the threat of non-integration.

I personally hope SWA never attempts to acquire another airline, as I fear our F/O's would never see the CA seat after a fair integration with another carrier.

The problem, is they can't have any tails painted other than SWA post Jan 1 2015, or it violates our codeshare.

 

[scoreboardII]

(Lear's quote above was in reference to the company broaching the subject of working minimums to receive full company insurance)


Now to go off on a tangent unrelated to the subject line...

Actually, Lear, a LOT of pilots (and flight attendants) I talk to want exactly this, and I suspect it's primarily driven by the flight attendants' contract. They have literally hundreds of flight attendants who do absolutely NO work whatsoever. They give everything away every month. However, they collect up to five weeks of vacation pay per year, and enjoy all the benefits of working here, including very generous medical insurance for them and all their families. Since Southwest is self-insured (UHC just administers the program), all of this money comes out of the pockets of all of the rest of us. These are employees who provide nothing to the bottom line (and in the majority of these cases, never intend to), but collect money from Southwest. They, or their partners have other "real" jobs and just stay on the list for the benefits or so they won't have to buy expensive health insurance. So a lot of us support a intelligent and reasonable negotiated way to mitigate this.

I agree with you that the company wants to broach this with our union now group to ensure it's fairly applied to all. We just happen to be the union in contract talks right now. You can be sure it will be pushed heavily onto the flight attendants as well when their contract becomes amenable.

I couldn't tell from your tone whether your are for or against this, but it seems like you're against it. Can you expound?

Bubba

Bubba if this is true why doesn't the company just hire the exact amount of FA's they need to cover the lines? Oh, thats right, they do.

 

[scoreboardII]

I think S.C.'s little update would have been fine if he left out the upgrade part. How can he be that much of a clown? Doesn't somebody in SWAPA help him with these releases? I thought the whole thing was pretty good till I got to the upgrade part, and then I was like; " Dude! That was so 10 months ago!"

unfortunately our comm guy is sort of like a clown getting out of the clown car: amazing to watch, but pretty ridiculous after the tenth or so attempt.

 

[scoreboardII]

Which part of - They made all Airatran pilots carry out a master bid for 717 Captain and FO that included a new 717 Base. At the same time denying they were trying to sell off the 717s, as they were actively selling them ?

Did you not understand ?

The "truth" changed, it's business, put on your big boy pants and deal.

 

[dicko]

The "truth" changed, it's business, put on your big boy pants and deal.

The rest of the world just call it plain old dishonesty. ie. lying.

 

[scoreboardII]

welcome to business, lifes tuff, it's tougher if you are unaware of the facts.

 

[Flyer1015]

I don't think there's any question that Airtran guys got boned, especially considering SWA management was looking to sell the 717s while keeping a straight face and saying that they were staying. I guess SWA management and SWAPA are no different then their other legacy airline counterparts.