SWAPA looking to capture more Capt seats

[scoreboardII]

That ant- leverage evaporates 2015, it's not like negotiations will be anywhere near complete by then.

If you want pay now, vote SWAPA in, otherwise, you get what you agreed too. It matters because your pay comes out of our pocket in lost profit sharing, etc. And, it breaks the deal. Want to break the deal? Vote SWAPA in. Get pay now.

 

[RLAblows]

All I'm saying is, the longer AirTran is on display to SWA management in its current form and making money, (see mid year update) the more likely it will be used against you in Section 6.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I am telling you what is commonly mentioned during negotiations. SWA has a pot of money that they are willing to give to each labor group. If SWAPA senses that the company is using the "pot" for AT remedies, they will have an issue with that.

 

[scoreboardII]

All I'm saying is that display of B scale goes away Jan 1 2015, which is well before any talk of section 6 money comes to play.

 

[Lear70]

Any talk of us getting the pay merely by voting ALPA out and SWAPA in is complete and utter horsesh*t.

Either:

A, the poster doesn't understand the RLA enough to understand that simply changing your bargaining agent doesn't bring you magically into a new CBA, or

B, the poster wants to foster that false idea among AirTran pilots in order to streamline the process when it happens, which more than likely will be filed by SWAPA ASAP if we file any grievance paperwork that threatens any part of the SIA so that they can undermine said grievance and dismiss it without our consent.

If ANY AirTran pilot has a question about this falsehood, PLEASE contact your reps or even call me directly, my number is in the ALPA directory on the web page.

I'm telling you, it is impossible to change our CBA simply by voting in SWAPA. The only thing this does is makes SWAPA your representative to the company under our EXISTING CBA until the date THAT WAS AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES FOR THE AIRTRAN PILOTS TO COME UNDER THE SWA CBA, which is 1/1/2015.

There is NO mechanism on God's green earth, short of SWA management agreeing to it EARLY with SWAPA and AAI pilots' agreement, that we can go to their CBA before 1/1/15 or when you cross the partition, whichever happens first. That's in the Seniority Integration Agreement and it's not waivable without ALL parties' consent.

Period. End. Of. Discussion.

Read the above and call me with any questions.

 

[Lear70]

Copy Lear, you want the cake, you want to eat it, and you want to eat ours, got it.

No, that would be SWA pilots who

A. Got our seniority.
B. Now are getting our CA seats that we PAID for with our seniority (which is a violation of the SIA in and of itself).
C. Don't want to give the AAI pilots pay parity now because it MIGHT take a few dollars out of their pockets later on, even though we are paying for your gains.

So, in essence, it's the SWA pilots who have the cake, took ours, and want to enjoy both without even letting us have a few crumbs... if you want to speak in analogy.

 

[ASADFW7]

I do not agree that the complexities of the acquisition can be sorted through fairly through debate. It is difficult to represent the interests of all pilots within a group. It is even more difficult to represent two different pilot groups. Perhaps AAI pilots do not see that only a small percentage of SWA pilots have gained anything from this transaction. None of the SWA pilots are based in ATL, all first officers who have not achieved an upgrade are being pushed backwards from transition pilots. After Jan 1, 2015 all AAI pilots are eligible for seniority based upgrade, and will stand first in line for a long time. I wonder what the tone will be then? I want the months back that I lost in the SLI too? I respect the feedback from this process however there are lots of moving parts, and the biggest moving part is SWA in this. The company has more control and input than either pilot association.

 

[Kharma Police]

No, that would be SWA pilots who

A. Got our seniority.
B. Now are getting our CA seats that we PAID for with our seniority (which is a violation of the SIA in and of itself).
C. Don't want to give the AAI pilots pay parity now because it MIGHT take a few dollars out of their pockets later on, even though we are paying for your gains.

So, in essence, it's the SWA pilots who have the cake, took ours, and want to enjoy both without even letting us have a few crumbs... if you want to speak in analogy.

I'm confused, didn't we already turn down Southwest pay and guaranteed captain seats?

 

[Lear70]

I'm confused, didn't we already turn down Southwest pay and guaranteed captain seats?

Cute...

Tell that to our CA's who were promised 717 CA slots on the SWA side of the partition.

But I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.

 

[FlyinGuy]

We got your senoirity? Right Lear...

 

[scoreboardII]

I'm telling you, it is impossible to change our CBA simply by voting in SWAPA.

This from the same group that said "don't vote for the first offer, we can do better". How did that work for AT pilots?

 

[scoreboardII]

No, that would be SWA pilots who

A. Got our seniority.

Because you guys agreed to it at an over 80% rate voluntarily.


B. Now are getting our CA seats that we PAID for with our seniority (which is a violation of the SIA in and of itself).

Because you guys agreed to it at an over 80% rate voluntarily.

C. Don't want to give the AAI pilots pay parity now because it MIGHT take a few dollars out of their pockets later on, even though we are paying for your gains.

Because you guys agreed to it at an over 80% rate voluntarily.

So, in essence, it's the SWA pilots who have the cake, took ours, and want to enjoy both without even letting us have a few crumbs... if you want to speak in analogy.

Again, only Because you guys agreed to it at an over 80% rate voluntarily.

 

[Kharma Police]

Cute...

Tell that to our CA's who were promised 717 CA slots on the SWA side of the partition.

But I appreciate the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm.

Hey man, it's all good! Falcons are playing the Broncos tonight!!!! Rise up!!!

 

[Lear70]

We got your senoirity? Right Lear...

Well, maybe you can explain to me how I got from #7 in base to bottom 12% back on reserve combined list?

I'd call that losing my seniority,,, you can call it what you want.

 

[Lear70]

Again, only Because you guys agreed to it at an over 80% rate with your jobs threatened and at jeopardy if you voted no.

There. Fixed it for you.

 

[redflyer65]

I respect the feedback from this process however there are lots of moving parts, and the biggest moving part is SWA in this. The company has more control and input than either pilot association.

ASA got this right. Even if Steve Chase walked into Gary's office, pounded on the desk and demanded SWAPA rates for AAI right now....he would be completely laughed out of the office. Gary is going to do what he's going to do. Just look at the second agreement, that's all the proof you need.

Lear,

The deal was the deal. It could have been voted down again by the MEC, or the members. It wasn't. Threatened your job? Yep, Gary wanted a deal and put big numbers into the first one. He really felt like he got egg on his face after the MEC voted down his best offer. Now its offer number two which we all live under. I don't see SW just opening the checkbook prior to 2015. No way. To keep thinking so is beating your head against the wall.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, just remember, you voted for it. No gun to your head, options to go to arbitration, yet you voted yes. End of story. Move on, get on with life as it will be, ignore the transition issues as a cost of being in the airlines. I've set fourth a plain and simple option to force SWA's hand to give you 90%, yet because you still want to fight, you'll more than likely end up with exactly what the SLI says, and the loss of good faith with SWA management, as they do have a long memory for stuff like this.

 

[Lear70]

ASA got this right. Even if Steve Chase walked into Gary's office, pounded on the desk and demanded SWAPA rates for AAI right now....he would be completely laughed out of the office. Gary is going to do what he's going to do. Just look at the second agreement, that's all the proof you need.

True story.

Lear,

The deal was the deal. It could have been voted down again by the MEC, or the members. It wasn't. Threatened your job? Yep, Gary wanted a deal and put big numbers into the first one. He really felt like he got egg on his face after the MEC voted down his best offer. Now its offer number two which we all live under. I don't see SW just opening the checkbook prior to 2015. No way. To keep thinking so is beating your head against the wall.

Can't really argue the first part. For the rest, that's up to the MEC.

Sitting here in Cancun at the all-inclusive beach-front it's hard to be pi$$ed at much. I'm outta this thread, you guys have fun without me. Just going to enjoy all these Montego Bay and Cancun 24-hr overnights until I'm dragged kicking and screaming across the partition.

Cheers :beer:

 

[waveflyer]

Yet you were the driving force on this thread Lear-
I respect you Lear, but it's time to let go of a lot of things- namely the conspiracy theories-
You lost out on SLI 1 bc you pushed for more- now you're doing it again expecting a different result-
You're living a self fulfilled prophecy- its like watching an unhappy teenager unwilling to see how his own behavior keeps him in trouble
My bet- if you'd stop pushing so hard, you'd have a better chance of getting what you want-
Keep playing the hardball angle and you won't.
Read- you went from #7 in base bc of change and some of Clinton's arithmetic - its that simple- youre in process of getting absorbed by a much bigger, older pilot group- I get that pilots at air tran tended to opt for an air tran career for quick advancement and quick seniority, that seniority is what you value- but ultimately, they were a cheap takeover target, so going for that came with some risk of being acquired- did you not realize that when hired there???-
As my good friends at American will attest- things change and change quick- these changes you're dealing with- are not the worst this gig can throw at you- and in fact, could be considered quite good changes with the right mindset-

 

[Max Powers]

yet you were the driving force on this thread lear-
i respect you lear, but it's time to let go of a lot of things- namely the conspiracy theories-
you lost out on sli 1 bc you pushed for more- now you're doing it again expecting a different result-
you're living a self fulfilled prophecy- its like watching an unhappy teenager unwilling to see how his own behavior keeps him in trouble
my bet- if you'd stop pushing so hard, you'd have a better chance of getting what you want-
keep playing the hardball angle and you won't.
Read- you went from #7 in base bc of change and some of clinton's arithmetic - its that simple- youre in process of getting absorbed by a much bigger, older pilot group- i get that pilots at air tran tended to opt for an air tran career for quick advancement and quick seniority, that seniority is what you value- but ultimately, they were a cheap takeover target, so going for that came with some risk of being acquired- did you not realize that when hired there???-
as my good friends at american will attest- things change and change quick- these changes you're dealing with- are not the worst this gig can throw at you- and in fact, could be considered quite good changes with the right mindset-

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz