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SWAPA looking to capture more Capt seats

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SWA717

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Posts
144
Fellow SWAPA Pilots,

At 1000 Herb today, the SWAPA Board of Directors held an electronic board meeting via conference call to discuss items including general business, the DEN domicile representative appointment, AirTran transition timeline, the Company's ability to meet the contractual deadline of January 1, 2015 and board direction relating to Section 6 negotiations.

After identifying the multitude of issues in our current CBA in need of attention, the board of directors during the August board meeting tasked the Negotiating Committee to investigate the viability of a seeking an agreement that would expedite addressing these concerns. This strategy would have addressed issues affecting our pilots on both sides of the cockpit due to deficiencies in our current CBA that have been revealed during this time of stagnation and transition. Some of those items included: reserve, domicile manning, retirement and monetary considerations. As with any negotiation, both parties have their own sets of "asks" and the Company was no exception. When your NC began bargaining and presenting these concerns, it was quickly realized the Company's desires were too broad and involved too many areas in the contract to expedite any agreement.

The Company also wanted to address a protracted pay scale. To be clear, this concept would begin with current first-year pay and end with our current maximum pay rate, but over an increased time period. Additional provisions in this proposal would give current pilots longevity adjustments to ensure their pay remains in parity with their current rate, and going forward they would only apply to new hire pilots. We view this proposal as a new B-scale.

Additionally, Southwest expressed the desire to address minimum productivity metrics for eligibility of Company-funded insurance. We felt this wasn't an issue we should consider while addressing the viability of a short-term bargaining path. While we understand this has been an issue for other work groups, the Company has not identified the pilots as a problem in regard to being productive.

Despite lack of resolution to date, valuable progress has been made, talks are productive and will continue. After lengthy discussions on these and other points, we found that a traditional bargaining timeline for Section 6 would be required to effectively address each issue appropriately. Time spent discussing these items was not lost. We have identified issues and concerns, and now better understand some of these elements as we move forward in bargaining. SWAPA remains committed to enhancing our contract equitably and as we progress. Look forward to more frequent updates.

Finally, I want to report on the Company's progress on the transition. They now appear more confident they will comply with our transition deadline of Jan. 1, 2015. It seems the Company has the ability to expedite the transition in a way that safely moves all operations under Southwest Airlines. This will result in the capturing of the upgrades afforded in Side Letter 10. I appreciate the pilot group's concern with this issue and allowing the Association to work alongside the Company in an effort to find a mutually beneficial solution. SWAPA's position all along has been that the only solution is to comply with our contractual agreement.

Fly Safe,
 
I wouldn't say 'MORE' captain seats. They just want the agreement followed by the company. Whether you agree with it or not.

Nice try though.
 
Maybe you should have titled the thread "SWAPA looking to actually enforce the freakin' contract," since that's exactly what this post from the President (and related, previous posts from the last few weeks) have been all about. The company had been making noises about not being able to meet the timeline (Jan '15) specified in the agreements, and SWAPA has been holding their feet to the fire to do so.

Jeez, you bitch about the slow pace of SWA integrating Airtran, and when SWAPA pushes them to step it up and integrate on the agreed-to schedule, you bitch about that too. Obviously there's nothing that will be done that you will be happy about. We got it.

Bubba
 
As with any negotiation, both parties have their own sets of "asks" and the Company was no exception. When your NC began bargaining and presenting these concerns, it was quickly realized the Company's desires were too broad and involved too many areas in the contract to expedite any agreement.
We told SWAPA this back at the conclusion of negotiations. Specifically, during the 2nd day of negotiations, Frank made the off-handed comment to Russ M asking how much management was going to expect back from SWAPA for carrying their water for them. Their response was, of course, "we're just trying to get a fair agreement", but towards the end of that exchange, they intimated that they would, indeed, be reminding SWAPA of that during Sec 6.

Later that week, at the post-negotiations cocktail hour at the bar before dinner, Frank asked them if they were prepared for the give-backs the company was going to expect as a result of carrying their water for them during negotiations. They seemed a little shocked. Yet here we are.

The Company also wanted to address a protracted pay scale... We view this proposal as a new B-scale.
Good for SWAPA.

Additionally, Southwest expressed the desire to address minimum productivity metrics for eligibility of Company-funded insurance. We felt this wasn't an issue we should consider while addressing the viability of a short-term bargaining path. While we understand this has been an issue for other work groups, the Company has not identified the pilots as a problem in regard to being productive.
Knew this was coming... They will use the excuse that they need to "streamline" the benefits metrics for all employee groups, and not have different policies for different labor groups.

After lengthy discussions on these and other points, we found that a traditional bargaining timeline for Section 6 would be required to effectively address each issue appropriately.
Also not a shocker. Welcome to a more traditional labor relationship with management. I believe they've been planning on moving this direction for a while. The days of industry-leading pay are likely over, with the lack of a clear cost advantage elsewhere, there will be considerable pressure to keep wages in-line with other SNB rates at other Majors (if not lower) as their bankruptcy contracts are re-negotiated.

Finally, I want to report on the Company's progress on the transition. They now appear more confident they will comply with our transition deadline of Jan. 1, 2015. It seems the Company has the ability to expedite the transition in a way that safely moves all operations under Southwest Airlines. This will result in the capturing of the upgrades afforded in Side Letter 10. I appreciate the pilot group's concern with this issue and allowing the Association to work alongside the Company in an effort to find a mutually beneficial solution. SWAPA's position all along has been that the only solution is to comply with our contractual agreement.
Had an interesting discussion along these lines with Chuck M and Mike V at the employee appreciation party in LAX last month. While they didn't come out and say this is what they planned to do, they alluded to it heavily, asking the AAI pilots in attendance what would they think of wearing the SWA uniform on the AAI side of the partition, etc.

Remember what I said 6 months ago about the language in the SLI basically making all AAI pilots SWA pilots by virtue of the 1/1/15 date, single carrier representation, and everyone being on the SWA CBA at that date?

That's exactly what they intend to do, and it sounds like they've gotten the FAA to bite off on the idea of "flipping the switch" for the remaining pilots on 12/31/14, similar to what Delta and NWA did.

For the remaining 717 pilots it'll be a non-issue, simply more FOM alignment bulletins, a PC over the SWA FOM for the CA's, and a SWA I.D. issued.

We'll see what they do for the remaining 737 pilots, but if there are still unconverted 737's at AAI on 1/1/15 (estimates with the conversion schedule look like no more than 10 aircraft remaining on that date if the res system comes up close to on-schedule), they could simply send those 150-200 pilots home with pay at guarantee for 2-3 months (75 per month through class is doable if they use the early a.m. sim sessions) while they put a Southwest sticker on the planes until they can get the last of them through conversion and SWAPA pilots fly them.

Welcome to the first airline merger/acquisition of two non-bankruptcy airlines that has ever resulted in NOT A SINGLE CAPTAIN SEAT being retained by an otherwise healthy and profitable airline.

Unfortunately for us, now that this playbook is out there for management to do an end-run around McCaskill-Bond, future acquisitions by SWA will probably go immediately to the NMB seeking protection and assistance with the integration timeline and commitment, rather than signing a Process Agreement, making the entire thing tamper-proof by management and, thus, getting to go to arbitration without the threat of non-integration.

I personally hope SWA never attempts to acquire another airline, as I fear our F/O's would never see the CA seat after a fair integration with another carrier.
 
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Jan 15 will come...Great White Father will takum SWAPA big cheese SC into tepee to smokem peace pipe. SC will come out of tepee with red cheeks an sore bottom. SWAPA havem many injuns, but very few warriors, and the Great White Father will holdum a heap big roundup for all his new Atlanta braves, free firewater for all. His new braves no likum SC, him speak with crooked an forked tongue.
 
How exactly is "capturing of upgrades" suppose to be interpreted?

Well, for starters, you could have actually read the entire note. He's talking about what was specified in SL-10, the agreement we all live under (for better or for worse), and about upgrades that were set in place by THAT agreement. Applying the word "more" in your diatribe is clearly just designed to inflame. Also keep in mind, that he's talking to Southwest partition pilots, not Airtran partition pilots, the junior-most of which are just as adamant that they got screwed by this agreement as you are. If SWA doesn't meet the timeline to get planes and crews transitioned by the agreed-upon date, it comes at the expense of not realizing all of the upgrades on the SWA sides that came with THAT deal. I realize that may be fine with YOU, but it's not what was agreed to in the first place.

So you can interpret it that way--SWAPA fighting to enforce the contract agreed to. OR... you can continue to take random sentences out of random memos, and continue to spin them to feed your particular bitch--that you got screwed.

Bubba
 
....

Knew this was coming... They will use the excuse that they need to "streamline" the benefits metrics for all employee groups, and not have different policies for different labor groups.

....

(Lear's quote above was in reference to the company broaching the subject of working minimums to receive full company insurance)


Now to go off on a tangent unrelated to the subject line...

Actually, Lear, a LOT of pilots (and flight attendants) I talk to want exactly this, and I suspect it's primarily driven by the flight attendants' contract. They have literally hundreds of flight attendants who do absolutely NO work whatsoever. They give everything away every month. However, they collect up to five weeks of vacation pay per year, and enjoy all the benefits of working here, including very generous medical insurance for them and all their families. Since Southwest is self-insured (UHC just administers the program), all of this money comes out of the pockets of all of the rest of us. These are employees who provide nothing to the bottom line (and in the majority of these cases, never intend to), but collect money from Southwest. They, or their partners have other "real" jobs and just stay on the list for the benefits or so they won't have to buy expensive health insurance. So a lot of us support a intelligent and reasonable negotiated way to mitigate this.

I agree with you that the company wants to broach this with our union now group to ensure it's fairly applied to all. We just happen to be the union in contract talks right now. You can be sure it will be pushed heavily onto the flight attendants as well when their contract becomes amenable.

I couldn't tell from your tone whether your are for or against this, but it seems like you're against it. Can you expound?

Bubba
 
Yeah Airtran still flying basically most 737s. All those cpt seats aren't coming to quick? 737 pilots will not transition until middle of 2014.

Selling the 717 just put another 700-800 Captains on top of the SWA FOs, fun time had by all !

ALPA national Thanks SWAPA and SWA for the extra millions of dollars in dues, for not transitioning the pilots to SWAPA.
 
I couldn't tell from your tone whether your are for or against this, but it seems like you're against it. Can you expound?

Bubba
It depends how it would be implemented and on what metric?

For instance, let's say that my fiance' and I eventually have kids. Let's say she doesn't want to stay out on FMLA because she makes about twice what I do so she wants me to stay home for a few months. After I've exhausted my FMLA, maybe I want to drop everything except for a couple 2-days on weekends where she's off so we don't have to get child care until the baby's about 6 months old.

That means for about 3-4 months, I'm dropping down to 40 or 50 trips. I don't want to be at risk for losing my benefits because for one 90-120 day period in 2-3 years, once or twice during my career, I decide to not work and give away the majority of my trips.

Of course you have FMLA, but after you exhaust that...

There may be people who want to take a trip of a lifetime where they're going to be gone 4-6 weeks around the world. Should they lose their benefits because they're not working a full month for two months in a row?

Is there a problem with the people who only fly a trip or two all year long and draw benefits? Absolutely. Should we be VERY careful about how this desired policy change could affect us? You betcha.

The SWA bidding system, ability to play with your lines, fly a crap ton for two or three months then take the next month off if you want, it's one of the real bonuses for working for Southwest. Truth be told 5-6 legs a day up and down isn't my cup of tea. The fact that I can get rid of a lot of stuff I don't want to fly and make as much as I make now on half the block hours I currently fly or find trips I like better and make good money is the ONE thing that offsets the HUGE seniority hit we took.

The potential increase in Quality of Life is what helps me keep a positive attitude towards this whole thing. I don't think I'm alone in hoping it doesn't get whittled away, that's all.

Hope that makes sense, sorry so long. :beer:
 
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