SWA/FL Codeshare

[redflyer65]

You make great points on how to outsource your flying because a larger plane can't do it. OYS, your other screen name, tried to make the same point. See the quote at the bottom of my post.

Yet we do with a 737. Oh wait, that doesn't fit your arguement..sorry. I believe hub and spoke to be very inefficent, but we can debate that later.

Thanks for schooling me on the NEED to outsource. Are you secretly Frank Lorenzo?

 

[737tanker]

You still don't seem to understand "feed." Some cities, RED, can't be served by a mainline plane. They are TOO SMALL. But, their feed is important to a "hub and spoke system
Bye Bye---General Lee

So General now that Delta owns 49% of Virgina America which small cities will Virgin America serve that Delta mainline can't serve. Also since Delta is part owner of Virgina America is Delta ALPA fighting to get their payscale up to those of Delta's.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'm more interested in what GL's fair SLI will look like with VA.

 

[General Lee]

You make great points on how to outsource your flying because a larger plane can't do it. OYS, your other screen name, tried to make the same point. See the quote at the bottom of my post.

Yet we do with a 737. Oh wait, that doesn't fit your arguement..sorry. I believe hub and spoke to be very inefficent, but we can debate that later.

Thanks for schooling me on the NEED to outsource. Are you secretly Frank Lorenzo?

You do well on that 737 on some smaller cities to Dallas itself (DAL Love)or intra Texas. That's good, a niche you have. But, recently you haven't been able to compete in LARGER cities, even with that 737 of yours. SEA to BOI and GEG. How about PHL to PIT? Your SLC ops has gotten smaller too. Plus, you are giving up on at least 17 current AT cities that you won't continue at SWA. So, that 737 of yours isn't always successful.


Btw, I have talked recently with OYS, and he's doing well. I think he got tired of the banter on here, but I haven't. He is currently busy getting ready for his 75/76 type. I'll tell him you said hi.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I'm more interested in what GL's fair SLI will look like with VA.

With a 49% share of the company? Can you name any mergers between US and EU airlines? Even if something like that somehow happened, I would expect the company to stay out if the SLI, and a group of arbitrators to determine what is fair. The resulting award would have an explanation attached.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So General now that Delta owns 49% of Virgina America which small cities will Virgin America serve that Delta mainline can't serve. Also since Delta is part owner of Virgina America is Delta ALPA fighting to get their payscale up to those of Delta's.

Virgin America? Huh? You mean Virgin Atlantic, right? Two seperate companies. Sir Richard Branson owns 25% of Virgin America, but that is totally different than Virgin Atlantic. You then said DL is part owner of "Virgina America." What is that? If you mean Virgin America, and if DL bought them, I would expect Dalpa to fight for the same 320 rates DL has. For the same planes, same pay. The joint contract between DL/NW had same pay within 6 months of the merger, and then a SLI via arbitration within 1 year total.

And, have you been drinking tonight? Don't drive a car please.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

Btw, I have talked recently with OYS, and he's doing well.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Jimmy likes Elaine.

 

[SWA Bubba]

THAT IS TOTAL BS. SWAPA and SC should have accepted the AT guys right after the second offer, and then continued to fight for them to this day. No pay disparity. Do you always take the first offer on anything? I guess SWAPA better take GK's next FIRST OFFER, or you guys will be in SERIOUS TROUBLE..... And how was that second offer delivered? Any idea? You obviously don't have a clue. Feelin' the LUV....


Bye Bye---General Lee

So I gess YOU have all the inside scoop on exactly everything that went down? Do you get cc'd when GK and his people make a decision now? As usual, you don't know squat, but then spout off as if you're the eminent authority on everything having to do with Southwest. Even now, that you're just down to repeating crap that has been refuted already.

Again, since you're so dense: It is not now, nor has it ever been, SWAPA or SC's job to fight for anything for ALPA. It is ALPA's job to do that. Management is on record that Airtran's business model does not support SWAPA wages, pulled the first offer stating such, and refused to offer it again. That's not SWAPA saying that. It's not SWAPA who signs the paychecks. Jesus, just listen to Lear brag about putting off transitioning to the Southwest side because he'd have to work harder and have less time off. Does that tell you anything, General?

Even if SWAPA did agree to fight ALPA's fight, what do you think we could have done? Seriously, what? If SWAPA's NC could negotiate something, it would have cost the SWAPA pilots something, and that would be counter to SWAPA's actual constituency, not the imaginary one you can't seem to shut your trap about.

Isn't there anything Delta-related that you can bitch about?

Bubba

 

[OakRBust]

Bubba....


Are you ever going to get tired of banging your head against the troll? Go get a cold one and watch storage wars or something.... You will feel so much better... May I suggest a (or several) nice Celebration fresh hop ale(s) from Sierra Nevada. This simple tip makes the poon and FI so much more enjoyable!


Cheers!:beer:

 

[General Lee]

Jimmy likes Elaine.

Joanie loves Chachi?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Bubba....


Are you ever going to get tired of banging your head against the troll? Go get a cold one and watch storage wars or something.... You will feel so much better... May I suggest a (or several) nice Celebration fresh hop ale(s) from Sierra Nevada. This simple tip makes the poon and FI so much more enjoyable!


Cheers!:beer:

Wait, you can still hold MCO? Good for you. Btw, many of you guys do get upset bantering with me because I continually beat you with the truth.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[OakRBust]

Private....

You are like Del Griffith on Planes Trains and Automobiles.... Except John Candy was actually funny. Your Lubbock and Amarillo joke got old around 11000 posts ago. I couldn't give a rats butt where my overnight is.... I want days off and dollars... I have that and am very happy. I am also happy that you are happy at mother Delta.

Now back to my Celebration fresh hop ale and storage wars.

Happy Friday kids!
:beer:

 

[General Lee]

Private....

You are like Del Griffith on Planes Trains and Automobiles.... Except John Candy was actually funny. Your Lubbock and Amarillo joke got old around 11000 posts ago. I couldn't give a rats butt where my overnight is.... I want days off and dollars... I have that and am very happy. I am also happy that you are happy at mother Delta.

Now back to my Celebration fresh hop ale and storage wars.

Happy Friday kids!
:beer:

That's great you don't care. Many people do. When I walk up to the Gate, I like seeing that I am going to Paris, or Dusseldorf, or Rio. I like GOING SOMEWHERE that most people can't go normally. It's like a mini-vacation. I get to experience somewhere strange on someone else's dime. It's sad you are jaded and don't care anymore, or in your words "couldn't give a rat's butt." I hope I never get that way. Maybe when I go back to domestic full time I might get jaded like you, but I still have places I want to see, and I can always bid INTL again someday as a Captain. I hope someday you feel the same again. Have a good night.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[vixin]

Delta owns 49% of Virgina America which small cities will Virgin America

. I can't see what the general post but I am sure he has corrected you already. It's Virgin ATLANTIC that they bought 49% of.

www.usatoday.com/...delta-virgin-atlanti...4 days ago – Delta Air Lines is buying a 49% stake in London-based Virgin Atlantic, the airline ...

 

[jonjuan]

That's great you don't care. Many people do. When I walk up to the Gate, I like seeing that I am going to Paris, or Dusseldorf, or Rio. I like GOING SOMEWHERE that most people can't go normally. It's like a mini-vacation. I get to experience somewhere strange on someone else's dime. It's sad you are jaded and don't care anymore, or in your words "couldn't give a rat's butt." I hope I never get that way. Maybe when I go back to domestic full time I might get jaded like you, but I still have places I want to see, and I can always bid INTL again someday as a Captain. I hope someday you feel the same again. Have a good night.



Bye Bye---General Lee

39 posts in one day.

 

[General Lee]

39 posts in one day.

Correct. Lots of responses, lots of good threads, lots of debate. Thanks for stalking! Unfortunately, very few of your posts are memorable. So, Jonny, go snuggle with Uncle Sal and enjoy your night.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

As for the GL's assertion that the SWAPA should have fought for pay parity for AAI after the SL10 was voted in...well we can fight all we want but if the company won't/can't afford it...ain't gonna happen...rumor has it VDV told GK after SL9 was inked that we could not afford that deal....transitioned AAI pilots are receiving SWA pay/benefits with AAI longevity credit... the company is transitioning AAI pilots in a cost effective manner... since AAI/SWA are two separate systems the synergies have not kicked in and the added cost of paying non transitioned AAI pilots @ SWA rates does not make business since to management. One could argue that the "post merger" announced CBA won by AAI/ALPA was the initial pay raise (influenced heavily by the announcement). SWA has recently announced that the transition will be completed by 2014. Codeshare will begin in 2013...

 

[General Lee]

As for the GL's assertion that the SWAPA should have fought for pay parity for AAI after the SL10 was voted in...well we can fight all we want but if the company won't/can't afford it...ain't gonna happen...rumor has it VDV told GK after SL9 was inked that we could not afford that deal....transitioned AAI pilots are receiving SWA pay/benefits with AAI longevity credit... the company is transitioning AAI pilots in a cost effective manner... since AAI/SWA are two separate systems the synergies have not kicked in and the added cost of paying non transitioned AAI pilots @ SWA rates does not make business since to management. One could argue that the "post merger" announced CBA won by AAI/ALPA was the initial pay raise (influenced heavily by the announcement). SWA has recently announced that the transition will be completed by 2014. Codeshare will begin in 2013...

So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

That is interesting.

And their own union ALPA allows another ALPA carrier(s) do outsourced flying for them as well?

And this guy is going crazy about another airlines two year transition plan?

Makes no sense at all.

 

[General Lee]

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doinug your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs than are coming in(200+ leaving, 70 incoming), adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs that are coming in, adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

 

[General Lee]

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

 

[Dash Power]

Originally Posted by General Lee
So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

 

[General Lee]

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

ALPA? The Dalpa negotiators negotiated it with the company for the new contract. They added a new ratio that gives mainline more of the domestic pie compared with the previous contract, the domestic scope with AK was tightened, the INTL scope (AF/KL/AZ Joint Venture) was tightened in our favor, and the 88 717s were tied in with the 70 new 76 seaters. The 76 seaters ONLY come if the 717s arrive, and the number of 50 seaters will decrease from over 300 to 125 total. That was all just negotiated. Other than that, ALPA or Dalpa can only demand to stay within the contract, and there are people watching the metrics of the Joint Ventures and DCI. That is all you can do. If something is wrong, you bring it up with the company, and if that doesn't work you contact an arbitrator to enforce it through a grievance.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

Say what??? Here he goes again, spouting off without ANY facts. The new contract just tightened scope. Are you saying it didn't? WRONG.... RJ numbers were reduced greatly (over 150 additional RJs will be parked than are coming in). INTL and DOM scope tightened (metrics with AK and the INTL JVs). 717 deal that helps mainline recapture routes flown by RJs for the last DECADE. YOU ARE WRONG. Reducing the number of RJs is a great first start, and the only one feasible. If you want to dump 400 plus RJs all at once, you would have to take a 50% paycut, and you know that would NEVER happen. Debate that, you can't.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Don't worry, General. They'll all be eating crow eventually when SWAPA gives away their scope in order to hold on to their pay rates, which Gary is definitely going to be going after. DALPA is going in the right direction. No doubt that SWAPA will be going the opposite direction over the next decade. One of the many reasons that I'm looking to bail.

 

[General Lee]

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

Dash, ZERO EFFORT? The last contract didn't do anything? Really? ZERO EFFORT? Please support that statement somehow.... Please tell me why SWA is dumping 17 cities currently flown at Airtran? Why don't they find a plane that could be used by SWA pilots, and paid at their current rates? Could that happen? Then tell me why SWA is pulling out of city pairs like SEA to GEG and BOI? How about PHL to PIT? Aren't those city pairs big enough to support a SWA 737?


Bye Bye---General Lee