SWA/FL Codeshare

[GIZMONC]

SWA is finally ready to codeshare with FL. There has not been a press release on it as of yet but coming soon. Could this technology update help in moving the merger along. Start date of the codeshare has not been officially announced. However GK has stated in the past it would be available 1stQ-2013.

 

[Just thinking]

How many millions of dollars has been wasted so far? Wow, only two years since the announcement and they may possibly achieve something in the near future that others accomplish in a matter of weeks. There is your 15 % ROI. Of course if they stay consistent, it will be at least another 18 months.

 

[boeingdriver213]

Most mergers that were done "quickly" were a train wreck for years. I think SWA is trying to do it correctly, not quickly.

 

[Britpilot]

I think SWA is trying to do it correctly, not quickly.

No, no they're not. It is a train wreck of their own making. Requiring a 737 pilot to go through two months of training to learn how to fly the 737 is expensive and just plain silly.
Delta/NWA was a "quick" merger. It was done how it should be done.

 

[Citrusflyer]

Most mergers that were done "quickly" were a train wreck for years. I think SWA is trying to do it correctly, not quickly.

Ahh, no, they're not. The longer this merger drags on the more SWA is showing they're fumbling along in the dark more than anything else. Still a good company with lots of potential, but (SLI aside) they've made a mess of the merger in about every way possible - so far.

As for the codeshare - seeing is believing - call me when it really occurs.

 

[General Lee]

Most mergers that were done "quickly" were a train wreck for years. I think SWA is trying to do it correctly, not quickly.

Huh??? Ask the AT guys if they are doing it "correctly?" You don't have a CEO favor one side, and expect the other side to forget it. (that is why arbitrators are used, they are blamed for an award, not management or the other pilots) Then, you don't pay one side differently for the SAME equipment. Even though SWA is keeping the extra ancilary revenue from AT (bag fees, etc), they don't give the AT guys any of that. This merger is a lot closer to the USAir merger than other SUCCESSFUL mergers.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

and by "correctly, not quickly" you mean as slow as they want.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Huh??? Ask the AT guys if they are doing it "correctly?" You don't have a CEO favor one side, and expect the other side to forget it. (that is why arbitrators are used, they are blamed for an award, not management or the other pilots) Then, you don't pay one side differently for the SAME equipment. Even though SWA is keeping the extra ancilary revenue from AT (bag fees, etc), they don't give the AT guys any of that. This merger is a lot closer to the USAir merger than other SUCCESSFUL mergers.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks for chiming in General--I was waiting with breathless anticipation for your words of wisdom here.

Everyone will get paid the same when the airlines are actually merged, on 1 January 2015, about two years hence. And how management uses its various revenue streams as it changes part of its holdings' business model really has nothing to do with anything in this discussion. Southwest gets a significant revenue source from NFG freight; does that mean they should just give all that revenue straight to the rampers?

And the "other pilots" aren't really to blame here; management is. They made the decision, and neither side had much, if any, say in the matter. Unequivocally, GK is where the buck stops in this case.

Yeah, I can see where SWA/Airtran is JUST like USAir: BK wages on one side, furloughs on the other side, no contract, nothing to look forward to, and 8 years and counting with no end in sight. You're right, General--it's exactly the same. Thank God you're here to point that out.


Bubba

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for chiming in General--I was waiting with breathless anticipation for your words of wisdom here.

Everyone will get paid the same when the airlines are actually merged, on 1 January 2015, about two years hence. And how management uses its various revenue streams as it changes part of its holdings' business model really has nothing to do with anything in this discussion. Southwest gets a significant revenue source from NFG freight; does that mean they should just give all that revenue straight to the rampers?

And the "other pilots" aren't really to blame here; management is. They made the decision, and neither side had much, if any, say in the matter. Unequivocally, GK is where the buck stops in this case.

Yeah, I can see where SWA/Airtran is JUST like USAir: BK wages on one side, furloughs on the other side, no contract, nothing to look forward to, and 8 years and counting with no end in sight. You're right, General--it's exactly the same. Thank God you're here to point that out.


Bubba

And I knew a retort from Bubba was inevitable. Hey, your merger has NOT gone as well as planned. Your pilots could have stood up for fairness, but they did not. Even though LM was the DL MEC Chair, he still tried to bring both groups together. He did. Then, during the SLI stage with the arbitrator, each side gave an opinion, and the 3 arbitrators gave their ruling. BUT, the joint contract came first, and that was completed in record time, with NWA pilots getting longevity credit for time spent out on furlough (something many UAL pilot may NOT get), the NWA pilots got a larger raise than the DL pilots, and they kept their frozen pensions. Sure, some people are a bit disgruntled by the seniority list, but everyone can blame the arbitrators, not management. That is key here, most of your new brothers and sisters are mad at management and your group for not supporting them with pay issues. You should have fought for them to get your pay, even after they refused the first offer. SC should have stood up and said, "pay them equally". The AT guys were going to get bumped out of their equipment anyway, but they should have the same pay for same equipment until the displacements. What did SWAPA do? All I heard were echos..... You just cannot argue against different pay for same equipment. That aint fair, and YOU KNOW IT BUBBA. SWAPA should have stood up for them. GK is where the buck stops? Ummmm, I think the issue may not have been pressed ENOUGH. CEOs come and go, but the AT pilots will be flying with you now for the rest of your careers. You guys just couldn't stand up, and it was obvious. Sad really. And I love the part about everyone will get same pay in 2 years when the merger is "complete." Who gets the revenue NOW for AT's bag fees? Anyone? Hello?? Can you use that revenue now to pay the pilots equally? Anyone?

The SWA/AT merger is CLOSER to the USAir merger than others because there is ill will between the pilot groups, and or management. I didn't say it was identical.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA Bubba]

And I knew a retort from Bubba was inevitable. Hey, your merger has NOT gone as well as planned. Your pilots could have stood up for fairness, but they did not. Even though LM was the DL MEC Chair, he still tried to bring both groups together. He did. Then, during the SLI stage with the arbitrator, each side gave an opinion, and the 3 arbitrators gave their ruling. BUT, the joint contract came first, and that was completed in record time, with NWA pilots getting longevity credit for time spent out on furlough (something many UAL pilot may NOT get), the NWA pilots got a larger raise than the DL pilots, and they kept their frozen pensions. Sure, some people are a bit disgruntled by the seniority list, but everyone can blame the arbitrators, not management. That is key here, most of your new brothers and sisters are mad at management and your group for not supporting them with pay issues. You should have fought for them to get your pay, even after they refused the first offer. SC should have stood up and said, "pay them equally". The AT guys were going to get bumped out of their equipment anyway, but they should have the same pay for same equipment until the displacements. What did SWAPA do? All I heard were echos..... You just cannot argue against different pay for same equipment. That aint fair, and YOU KNOW IT BUBBA. SWAPA should have stood up for them. GK is where the buck stops? Ummmm, I think the issue may not have been pressed ENOUGH. CEOs come and go, but the AT pilots will be flying with you now for the rest of your careers. You guys just couldn't stand up, and it was obvious. Sad really.

The SWA/AT merger is CLOSER to the USAir merger than others because there is ill will between the pilot groups, and or management. I didn't say it was identical.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You really don't know much about unions, do you? It was Airtran ALPA's job to fight for Airtran pilots, and SWAPA's job to fight for Southwest pilots. I'd bet even PCL and Lear will agree with that. During your merger, at any point did Delta's MEC tell management, "no, you're not giving enough to the other guys; we want you to increase it."? Did they, General? No, of course they didn't. Does that mean that Delta's union failed by not "sticking up" for the Northwest side? That's not how negotiations work.

By the way, it didn't get to arbitration because of management's desire. SWAPA was preparing for such an outcome. And as far as money goes, after the first offer was turned down by Airtran/ALPA's MEC, the company immediately rescinded it, saying that it never should have been offered in the first place, due to its cost. The way Airtran did business (hub & spoke, their pilot efficiency, etc) made it untenable to pay them SWAPA wages in management's eyes. Hell, if stand-alone Airtran couldn't afford to pay its pilots SWAPA wages, why do you think that Southwest management could afford to pay the same SWAPA wages into the same Airtran system? As the pilots transistion to Southwest, with our system and its efficiencies, then they'll get paid SWAPA wages.

As far as ill will goes, there's some of that in every single merger/acquisition in the history of the airlines. Including your beloved Delta. I've heard former NWA guys bitch, as well as United & Continental guys. There's absolutely no way to make everyone one involved in a merger happy. However, comparing any other merger to USAir/AWA is a gross distortion calculated as part of your constant and predictable mud-slinging.

Like I said, it appears you don't know much about how unions operate. It's pretty obvious, however, that you don't know diddly dick about this situation in particular.

Bubba