SWA/FL Codeshare

[General Lee]

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doinug your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs than are coming in(200+ leaving, 70 incoming), adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs that are coming in, adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

 

[General Lee]

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

 

[Dash Power]

Originally Posted by General Lee
So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

 

[General Lee]

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

ALPA? The Dalpa negotiators negotiated it with the company for the new contract. They added a new ratio that gives mainline more of the domestic pie compared with the previous contract, the domestic scope with AK was tightened, the INTL scope (AF/KL/AZ Joint Venture) was tightened in our favor, and the 88 717s were tied in with the 70 new 76 seaters. The 76 seaters ONLY come if the 717s arrive, and the number of 50 seaters will decrease from over 300 to 125 total. That was all just negotiated. Other than that, ALPA or Dalpa can only demand to stay within the contract, and there are people watching the metrics of the Joint Ventures and DCI. That is all you can do. If something is wrong, you bring it up with the company, and if that doesn't work you contact an arbitrator to enforce it through a grievance.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

Say what??? Here he goes again, spouting off without ANY facts. The new contract just tightened scope. Are you saying it didn't? WRONG.... RJ numbers were reduced greatly (over 150 additional RJs will be parked than are coming in). INTL and DOM scope tightened (metrics with AK and the INTL JVs). 717 deal that helps mainline recapture routes flown by RJs for the last DECADE. YOU ARE WRONG. Reducing the number of RJs is a great first start, and the only one feasible. If you want to dump 400 plus RJs all at once, you would have to take a 50% paycut, and you know that would NEVER happen. Debate that, you can't.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Don't worry, General. They'll all be eating crow eventually when SWAPA gives away their scope in order to hold on to their pay rates, which Gary is definitely going to be going after. DALPA is going in the right direction. No doubt that SWAPA will be going the opposite direction over the next decade. One of the many reasons that I'm looking to bail.

 

[General Lee]

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

Dash, ZERO EFFORT? The last contract didn't do anything? Really? ZERO EFFORT? Please support that statement somehow.... Please tell me why SWA is dumping 17 cities currently flown at Airtran? Why don't they find a plane that could be used by SWA pilots, and paid at their current rates? Could that happen? Then tell me why SWA is pulling out of city pairs like SEA to GEG and BOI? How about PHL to PIT? Aren't those city pairs big enough to support a SWA 737?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Don't worry, General. They'll all be eating crow eventually when SWAPA gives away their scope in order to hold on to their pay rates, which Gary is definitely going to be going after. DALPA is going in the right direction. No doubt that SWAPA will be going the opposite direction over the next decade. One of the many reasons that I'm looking to bail.

PCL,

Personally, I hope you transition over to a DL 717........



Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[texman]

PCL,

Personally, I hope you transition over to a DL 717........



Bye Bye----General Lee

Ladies and gentlemen we have found true Love!

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Personally, I hope you transition over to a DL 717........

Transition? That sounds great, General. Maybe you could talk to your MEC about that. But no, I'm not interested in going back to resume writing, studying prep books, and doing interviews. I haven't even updated my logbook in over five years. When I came here, I said it would be my last airline, and I'm sticking to that. I'm looking to get out of aviation. But thanks for the thought.

 

[Dash Power]

The truth is Lee is that online debates are way too time consuming but in person you can easily be whipped. Anyways you always digress to name calling anyways so I choose not to lower myself in order to have any mature dialog. So I will pass.

PCL I hope you find happiness at DL and you and Lee form a long great friendship. I can speak for all of the pilots at SWA, we don't want or need you anyways.

I am out.

 

[General Lee]

The truth is Lee is that online debates are way too time consuming but in person you can easily be whipped. Anyways you always digress to name calling anyways so I choose not to lower myself in order to have any mature dialog. So I will pass.

PCL I hope you find happiness at DL and you and Lee form a long great friendship. I can speak for all of the pilots at SWA, we don't want or need you anyways.

I am out.

Wow. Well, if PCL does stay at SWA, I hope he gets into SWAPA and takes over. Dash, you have NO answers to any of my questions anyway, and instead you "pass", because you already know you will lose the debate with me. "Lower yourself?" You know you can't win, you can't come up with an answer anyone would believe. It's ok to admit that, you already have anyway with your "pass" statement. You tell me that DL pilots should right now be flying all 50 seat RJs at DELTA wages, but you can't explain why SWA is dumping 17 AT cities? Why won't SWA fly to those smaller cities? COST maybe? Just like DL flying 50 seaters at DL wages? Riiiiiight? Explain or consider it a loss.

GL--500, Dash--zero.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CA Calypso]

Then tell me why SWA is pulling out of city pairs like SEA to GEG and BOI? How about PHL to PIT? Aren't those city pairs big enough to support a SWA 737?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Sure those city pairs are "big enough" to support 737s. I wouldn't expect to have to explain to you our route structure or the concept of yields.

Maybe we should just scope out all that flying to capture a low yield market share.

 

[Full of LUV]

+1

Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

I guess "short timeline" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are AAI it probably feels like an eternity... if your native SWAPA, it all feels too quick as it is.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I guess "short timeline" is in the eye of the beholder. If you are AAI it probably feels like an eternity... if your native SWAPA, it all feels too quick as it is.

Maybe,... Maybe not.

I'm native Southwest (my only airline ever), and *I* certainly wish this would go quicker. (If nothing else, it would cut down on the General's anti-Southwest rants. ). The sooner we get this done, the better for everyone. However, you're right that relative things are always in the eye of the beholder.

Bubba

 

[ATLplt]

Maybe,... Maybe not.

Bubba

I know on the AirTran side there's gonna be guys fighting to be the last to hit the light switch. The longer this drags out the longer I get to keep my seniority, base, and quality of life.

 

[slaquer5]

Wow. Well, if PCL does stay at SWA, I hope he gets into SWAPA and takes over.

GL--500, Dash--zero.


Bye Bye---General Lee

As much as I hope PCL goes somewhere else. He does give 110% . I am sure he would be doing the same if he was SWAPA pres.

Better than I can say for some at SWAPA.