PSA(unbelievable!!)

[D'Angelo]

Where do you come up with this crap? integrity....if it was up to management they would be signing your paycheck, only the amount would be alll ZEROS....and i believe it is the COMPANIES that rob the employees blind in this industry, I don't see too many CEOs taking massive paycuts. Granted, unions have their issues, but IMO they are the only things that keep us from flying for free!!....AGAIN I SAY...You sir are an idiot.....

Actually thats not true at all. While the goal is always to get the cheapest labor there are limits. Just look at the airlines that keep having to drop their minimums. At some point the pool of applicants will dry up and then wages will have to go back up. I guarantee you this. If management stopped paying pilots the industry would collapse overnight. Plus the government would step in on that one, a thing called minimum wage remember. Regardless to say if they only paid minimum wage to all pilots no one would fly anymore. That is what truly sets the payscale. Unions try and use artifical barriers but in the end its really what the market will bear. If people stopped applying all together and said theyd love to work for the airline but want more money then they would raise the wage to a point where people agree to report for duty. Obviously the market is still bearing these wages why because even with paycuts we still do pretty darn well, especially the captains. The union is corrupt because they didn't let their members vote on it. Its never a waste of time to give every person the chance to vote on issues that concern them. The opinion was "formed" by the vocal minority. No worries though the flying will goto Mesa. Why reward mesa by letting them get growth and maybe a good contract later. You have to make them pay for their decision by getting the airplanes away from them so at least they aren't growing for being so cheap.

 

[jetfo]

PSA MEC Proposals

That is absolutely ridiculous. The pilots should have been allowed to vote anyway. I say good for the company for bypassing the MEC. The RLA is too liberal as it is. Management should be able to shoot offers right out to the pilot group. If the MEC can authorize a TA without even holding a vote then pilots should be able to vote on such an important issue bypassing the MEC all together. I thought the pilots were the union huh? Only when its convienent I guess

I usually agree with you D'Angelo, but in this case I can't. The PSA pilot group is represented by ALPA and the proposals should be presented to the PSA MEC and then communicated to the membership.

Like it or not, under the RLA, ALPA negotiates on the PSA pilot's behalf. The MEC does have a responsibility to communicate to the pilot group and put important issues affecting the entire membership up for a vote.

But, this happens after negotiations have taken place. Management cannot do an end run around ALPA's negotiating process, bypass the union and go directly to the pilots.

That's like a prosecuter bypassing the defense attorney and dealing directly with the defendant. The pilot group retained and voted for ALPA and the MEC to represent them and bypassing the process is not an option.

What PSA management would have liked to do is to avoid negotiations by putting it to a vote and hoping that their scare tactics worked and a slim majority of coerced pilots would approve it. If yes great, if not they figured then they would negotiate.

Good tactic if you're management if you can avoid negotiations and get everything you want by coercion.

My view is that this is going to force management to negotiate if they really want to get the aircraft at PSA. PSA already has the lowest operating and labor costs and best performance. Putting the 900's anywhere else is going to cost them more!

The MEC has put a number of modest proposals, both compensation related and non compensation related on the table. They are not asking for the moon and the stars, in the case of some proposals just non monetary QOL improvements.

Just like all negotiations, I am sure this will go down to the wire, but ultimately, a proposal will be put up for a vote by the membership.

Our MEC is trying to negotiate on the PSA pilot's behalf in good faith, that's what we hired them for, so let's see what they come up with.

 

[ex j-41]

Why reward mesa by letting them get growth and maybe a good contract later. You have to make them pay for their decision by getting the airplanes away from them so at least they aren't growing for being so cheap.

Getting the airplanes first is like buying a house then negotiating the price. It just doesn't work that way.
If Mesa gets the airplanes then so be it. The D.O. won't get his raise and we will go back to doing what we do. Somewhere sometime you have to put your foot down and say "Enough". It is management that is responsible for the airplanes potentially not coming. It is their fault for trying to take advantage of us. If the whole company suffers it isn't the pilots fault, christ i make $340/week, and you want me to fly a 90 seater?

 

[paddlehigh]

wow to that mesa guy who is sooo rich. I am glad that I am working for a company that was not kicked out of a town due to disgruntal township over mesa performance, steamboat if I am not correct. Maybe you should take your money and hide it where your head is when you walk through the airport tool

 

[zman]

listen if i have to step on other pilots to have mesa fly more CRJ900's then so be it. The reality is this industry changed if you dont like it leave, and for all those guys talking about their family and stuff. YOU SHOULDNT HAVE COME IN THIS INDUSTRY!!!

 

[J32driver]

listen if i have to step on other pilots to have mesa fly more CRJ900's then so be it. The reality is this industry changed if you dont like it leave, and for all those guys talking about their family and stuff. YOU SHOULDNT HAVE COME IN THIS INDUSTRY!!!

A whopping 4 posts and an inability to fill out your profile with any real information.

LADY'S AND GENTLEMEN.... I PRESENT.... "THE TROLL".

 

[zman]

you know you had nothing descent to say cause you know what i said is true. Every man/woman for themselves.

 

[bizzum]

Actually thats not true at all. While the goal is always to get the cheapest labor there are limits. Just look at the airlines that keep having to drop their minimums. At some point the pool of applicants will dry up and then wages will have to go back up. I guarantee you this. If management stopped paying pilots the industry would collapse overnight. Plus the government would step in on that one, a thing called minimum wage remember. Regardless to say if they only paid minimum wage to all pilots no one would fly anymore. That is what truly sets the payscale. Unions try and use artifical barriers but in the end its really what the market will bear. If people stopped applying all together and said theyd love to work for the airline but want more money then they would raise the wage to a point where people agree to report for duty. Obviously the market is still bearing these wages why because even with paycuts we still do pretty darn well, especially the captains. The union is corrupt because they didn't let their members vote on it. Its never a waste of time to give every person the chance to vote on issues that concern them. The opinion was "formed" by the vocal minority. No worries though the flying will goto Mesa. Why reward mesa by letting them get growth and maybe a good contract later. You have to make them pay for their decision by getting the airplanes away from them so at least they aren't growing for being so cheap.

The figure of speech obviously was not noticed, zero dollars would not be allowed, BUT there are alot of people who would do it for ZERO dollars, heck they even PAY for FO jobs. All I am trying to say is that if people don't take a stand, we will all be flying 747 sized aircraft for $19 an hour. This industry is already going in the wrong direction, its time to quit biting at the dangling carrot.

 

[zman]

Bizzum I think that is a matter of self opinion. Some people would like to see their airline they work for grow to fly much bigger a/c. I hope one day mesa will fly E190's or even larger, and I am perfectly happy with the pay.

 

[zman]

Look at the Fokker it seated 86 seats ( the AA version), right now mesa currently operates 35+ CRJ900's what your talking about is already happening. I think the future will be in regional flying doing all the domestic flying and some international. Heck we already fly to mexico and canada as regional operators. The days of the old legacy crap is done with airlines are changing, pay is changing, life is changing. If people cant deal with it they need to seriously take a look at another industry if they have issues with the one we are in now. We as pilots will never change and you know something i would rather fly for 19 bucks an hour then have no job at all.

 

[paddlehigh]

zman I bet you would never show your face in clt because it is hiding up your @ss with the pride you cannot show, and I am sorry for that tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool. ps not trying to be mean but your attitude brings this on yourself and your peers.

 

[paddlehigh]

zman put your mouth where your money is while your ahead. Trust me I am doing you a favor. Don't forget mesa does not have voice. I am sorry

 

[zman]

how cause I talk about the reality of the state of the industry we are in. Look around you if you already havent noticed, things will never reverse themselves. Regionals will continue to ask for bigger a/c and mainline will outsource them. Its only a matter of time, and all the high pay your talking about is what killed the majors. Besides when we get E190's we will probably take over which ever carriers 737 routes then eventually the planes will slowly and slowly get bigger. If people had this grand idea of what this industry was they are dreaming, if they have fessed up to reality then at least they wont be so depressed and burned every day they see something related to this issue swing to the side of what i am talking about.

 

[bizzum]

Bizzum I think that is a matter of self opinion. Some people would like to see their airline they work for grow to fly much bigger a/c. I hope one day mesa will fly E190's or even larger, and I am perfectly happy with the pay.

I would like to see my airline grow also, BUT if that means bigger aircraft, then i expect to be compensated accordingly, not flying a 90 seat airplane for 50 seat wages. Perfectly happy with the pay? dude, I really hope you are not serious on that one.

We as pilots will never change and you know something i would rather fly for 19 bucks an hour then have no job at all.

well i really hope you don't have a vote in your next contract negotiations if thats your attitude....you go enjoy your 19 bucks and hour while JO goes out and buys another $100,000 motorcycle

 

[paddlehigh]

zman now be a good little boy or girl and just hush because you love mesa and that is just not right. I am telling you this is just not right. Hey just go look in the mirror and say do I love mesa, me, flying, jesus, hey what ever floats your boat and then get your @ss out your head, and then try to walk through the airport with pride, because if you still tied it still wouldn't work. ps I am sorry

 

[zman]

In order to get the wages your talking about you literally need one union and one vote to represent all the regionals. That will never, ever happen in our life time at least. I am happy and I take what i get, for example these CRJ900's chances are they will go to another regional like Mesa, Skywest (which doesnt even have a union), or Republic, etc. All these PSA guys did was basically shoot themselves in the foot. Look at TSA their company turned around and created Go jets. What the hell did Alpa do for them?? Or talking just about plain and simple morals Teamsters that now represents them. You can be on board with a ship that floats or go down with a sinking one. I will gladly jump on board with the one that floats and an the end of day i am still getting paid. Not exactly what i wanted buy hey its a check.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

We as pilots will never change and you know something i would rather fly for 19 bucks an hour then have no job at all.

A few numbers to show what that attitude has cost us:

1998 USAirways contract:

5 year F100 C/A-- $143.00
2 year F100 F/O-- $69.50

5 year F-28 C/A --$95.10 (F-28 gone by then but payscale remained)
2 year F-28 F/O --$46.21

Current Mesa Contract as per Airline pilot pay: (Typical of all the regionals)

2 Year F/O all jets-- $28
5 year C/A Crj 900-- $67


In 8 years the price for flying a 90 seat jet has gone down $76 an hour, yet a decent house for a family of three will set you back a minimum of 140k and gas is now 3 bucks a gallon.

By the way, your $19 an hour will gross you a whopping $19,380 a year.........thats about $30,620 less a year than I made selling new cars after my furlough in 2001........40k less than my payscale was flying a Citation twice a week....and 25k less than my long haired, tattooed, Harley riding neighbor makes working at a medical supply warehouse driving a forklift.

No I think 19 bucks an hour is far worse than having no flying job at all. I will go back to selling cars before I fly for that in a jet......it pays a whole hell of a lot better.

 

[zman]

like i said kerosene its all a matter of a opinon and there is thousands that would agree with me with and there is thousands that agree with you. Ethier way those airplanes will fly ethier with me, you, or the next guy that agrees to take the job!

 

[ex j-41]

like i said kerosene its all a matter of a opinon and there is thousands that would agree with me with and there is thousands that agree with you. Ethier way those airplanes will fly ethier with me, you, or the next guy that agrees to take the job!

After you get 50 hrs working for an airline come back and talk some sense.
It has nothing to do with Mesa Piedmont or whoever. It all has to do with us working extra hard for no money, crap schedules and a very poor QOL. If Mesa wants to fly the jets the let them. US Air will get what they pay for. Idiots like you!

 

[bizzum]

After you get 50 hrs working for an airline come back and talk some sense.
It has nothing to do with Mesa Piedmont or whoever. It all has to do with us working extra hard for no money, crap schedules and a very poor QOL. If Mesa wants to fly the jets the let them. US Air will get what they pay for. Idiots like you!

AMEN!!!

 

[328dude]

Sadly, this is how this whole thing is going to play out over here. We tried to negotiate improvments with out much success. The proposal is what it is. The MEC will have to decide now whether to send it to the pilot group for a vote or not. The overwhelming majority support what the MEC is trying to do in regards to protections, but sadly, the company is trying to pin this now on the MEC. Typical.

If it goes out to vote, it will be turned down and we go living our misarable lives. D'Angelo applies for a managment position here. If it's a "No" vote, the planes will be sent somewhere else I'm almost certain of that, but who cares anymore. The whole thing stinks like D'Angelo $hit.......

 

[BeCareful!]

Amazing. I think we have finally reached that mythical point in time, the much anticipated point in history when ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I am so proud of the PSA MEC for standing up for itself.

Good job!

328dude, do you know how much PSA management wants those 900's? Trust me, they want them....it legitimizes their job and their position in the industry more than it does yours. Relax, and let the power of greed work in your favor!

 

[Weasil]

I always liked Mark Stanley. Well done guys. Hope it was a shock to those a*holes running PSA.

 

[Gofish]

Whipsaw contractors and B scales are in nobody's interest.

The aircraft and the jobs belong at mainline.

 

[Crossky]

I believe it! Mad props to you PSA MEC! Good Job. We get a spine transplant to others and D. food poisoned, we be awright then.

 

[sniper]

Ok, So you had to give up the "world" to get your precious scope clause. You had to give up pay and QOL to get it, so you say. Now you say that you want pay and QOL in your new contract. What happens when JO says you can have your pay and QOL in your new contract all you have to do is give up your scope? You Mesa pukes know JO, he's NOT going to give you both! So what do you want? As long as regionals are just franchises to a major, nothing will reverse this process.

You are a fool.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

like i said kerosene its all a matter of a opinon and there is thousands that would agree with me with and there is thousands that agree with you. Ethier way those airplanes will fly ethier with me, you, or the next guy that agrees to take the job!

For a while, but not too much longer. New starts are way down at flight schools, gas and insurance are obscene now, flight training now costs so much that one would have to be a complete idiot to lay out the kind of money that ERAU and others charge for a 20k a year job that MAY pay 60k after 12 years.

Several things will likely happen in the next few years....First the pilot supply will dry up. 2nd, general aviation will die in this country just as it has in europe(Ever flown over there? It is spooky quiet on the radio even in the middle of the day, only airliners and an occasional corporate jet) This will result in one of two things, either A. the airlines raise the payscales, or B. they continue to find people willing to work for 20k a year as prices on everything else continue to rise, but the quality of the pilots will fall to a dangerous level. Some say it is already there and the only thing protecting the passengers is the automation, in fact we already have a few cases in the NTSB files now that are nothing but inexperienced stupidity......we all know which ones I am talking about.

One of three things will fix it, either the pilots say enough is enough, or the companies realize that pay must be raised, or the US airline industry starts killing enough passengers with inexperienced or substandard minimum wage pilots that the goverment steps in and sets hiring standards or shuts down the bloodiest airlines.

Already one is hard pressed to find a ramper at the regional level that doesn't look and act like a drug dealer (just visit Philly!!) Before long the pilots will be of the same caliber. When you can make 40 to 50 k selling cars, 300k in the mortgage business, 60 to 80k in the IT sector, or 60 to 100k as an engineer, why would a person with the intelligence to do a job like that go through the effort and training required to make a federal poverty level wage? (By the way, most regional F/O's qualify for food stamps if they have a family already.)

In the early days of the jet, we were killing an astounding number of people. Back then training and experience fixed it, now we have the added safety of automation. How long will it be before the stupid factor in the cockpit starts to out do the smart avionics?

Your average pot smoking college kid would laugh at you now if you told him what you made as a regional F/O..........just think what kind of pilots the next generation is going to be if we continue down this path?

 

[sniper]

Management does have integrity though. They sign your paycheck every month. Without them you wouldn't have a job to complain about. Funny how quickly people forget this. Unions are the ones lacking integrity. They try to rob the company blind every chance they get.

Management works for the company as well Jonathan. They draw a paycheck as well.

Last time I check, the public owns your company and US Airways.

All my friends over at Mesa will tell you that soon.


I heard Mesa has a new MEC, new Negotiating Commitee, new Reps.
Best of luck next year.


www.mesahub.com

 

[Gofish]

Hey, while we got JO on the hotline (D'Angelo = JO), lets ask him about unauthorized trading of securities in a customer's account.

Isn't that why JO isn't a securities broker anymore? Hasen't he been labeled a crook and ostricized by the financial community? Should JO really even be running an airline?

I am glad at least pilots have integrity.

 

[FR8mastr]

Just listened to the recording, Good job PSA