Pilots wearing backpacks??? lets get campy?

[CapnVegetto]

Ok...more of the same reasoning....

Backpacks look/are unprofessional because some Flight Operations Manuals say do not use them. If a pilots' FOM says backpacks are prohibited and a pilot still uses one; that is unprofessional. I understand your FOM may not address backpacks. I did use this arguement in my post.

One reason why some FOMs prohibit backpacks is image. Right or wrong, most people that use backpacks are hikers, campers and students. These three activities are are not professional activities. In fact, students are on the opposite end of professionals. In addition, most students in the US are under the age of 22. Backpack usage, right or wrong, is the image of a teenager/student.

When we think of other professionals, lawyers, doctors, Military Officers, architects etc. We think of clean pressed suits and uniforms. And accessories/luggage that compliment the suit/clothing or uniform.


Here are two more arguments against the backpack.

1. Would you wear a backpack to a pilot interview?

2. We don't wear our luggage. We don't put on our rollerboard, or our flight case. But one does put on a backpack. That makes the backpack unique.

In addition, most FOMs state that luggage must be black. Is the arguement for any color luggage ok? Backpacks weren't an issue in the 90's. At least I don't recall them being worn by many. Why the change? Why have pilots, mostly young, begun to change the luggage usage to backpacks? Perhaps changes to FOMs will include no backpacks. Maybe not.

So here are my arguements.

1. Backpacks give the image of a teenager and/or student.
2. Professionals don't wear their luggage.
3. Backpacks were not a uniform issue until the new millenium.
4. Some pilots wear the backpack even though thier FOM says no.

The idea is to self regulate. Not see what boundries we can push.

All I can do is offer my reasoning. God forbid I am actually telling you not to wear a backpack. You have to make that choice on on your own.

OK, now we actually have something to debate. Here we go:

1. Backpacks give the image of a teenager and/or student.

OK, so by this argument, we are supposed to look at someone wearing a backpack and assume that they are a 22 year old student. So, when I went to my airline interview in a suit, do you think that the interviewers looked at me and said, "Oh, he's wearing a suit, he must be a Baptist minister!" Or a lawyer. Or a businessman. The list goes on and on. Do I need to look at someone wearing a polo shirt and immediately assume they are a golfer? How about I look at someone wearing glasses and immediately assume they are a rocket scientist. How about when a Fortune 500 pilot gets out of a $20 million G550 wearing a polo shirt and khakis. Golf is a leisure activity, so is that unprofessional? You see what I'm getting at here? The old saying 'don't judge a book by its cover' does come from somewhere, you know.

Nowhere in our FOM did it say anything about luggage color, backpacks, etc. I have to think it was because the people that wrote it knew that there were better things to worry about then that. So why would I want to spend another $50 bucks on a laptop case from Office Depot when I could just carry it around in my backpack? Especially on a RJ copilot salary? This isn't a prison camp, it's a job. I understand a uniform, just like I understand any office saying you can't show up in a wife-beater and cutoffs. But enough is enough. When someone starts trying to control every little aspect, then we have a problem. Especially on something as insignificant as a backpack, which, as we've already established, a large percentage of people see no problem with.

2. Professionals don't wear their luggage.

Covered in my last paragraphs.

3. Backpacks were not a uniform issue until the new millenium.

So? When issues appear, you deal with them. That's life. I still say you're making a moutain out of a molehill.

4. Some pilots wear a backpack even when the FOM says no.

This one I agree with you on. If the manual says no, you can't do it. However, if that were true to the letter, then the Declaration of Independence would never have been written. If you don't like something in the FOM, change it through the proper channels. But saying everyone can't do it because one company's FOM says it doesn't hold water.

By the way, I DID wear my backpack to my pilot interview. I had my logbooks, paperwork, etc. in it. I didn't have a briefcase, and I wasn't about to go buy one just for that. And....I got the job. As a matter of fact, I've never not gotten a job that I interviewed for.

 

[FN FAL]

This thread is becoming more gayer by the minute

 

[CapnVegetto]

This thread is becoming more gayer by the minute

Then what're you doin' here bud?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

CapnVegetto,

I edited my post to include #5. Please respond. #5 is an arguement to your response to my #1.

Your response is to my #3 is not debatable. It is a rhetoric and pure opinion without reason.

Would you wear a packback to a dream job interview? SWA, jB, FX, UPS? Where I work a pilot applicant could wear a clown suit and get hired. But I wouldn't and that is just where I work.

And yes, FN FAL is gay.

 

[acaTerry]

You took it wrong. I was just saying that the "look" is less important to a darktime outfit like FedEx. Not at all to say you guys "don't count", unless you lose my package!
Anyway, I am simply referring to the "coincidental" decline in the lifestyle, pay and benefits of the job with the new breed of pilot coming in who has no regard for the things such as image and maturity. It adds up to what we are seeing here today. Cry all you want kids, but you are shooting yourselves in the foot.

BTW, congratulations on the 10/11, it is so much better sitting straight ahead, isn't it?

 

[embryflyboy]

I hope that I am not speaking out of turn but I feel that ROL has raised some fantastic points. I constantly hear complaints about how we are paid so low and how we are professional’s but it seem as if we continue to engage in activity that is not becoming of a professional, having Captains sleep with FO or FA. I have heard pilots say take the wings epilates and tie off. When you see a military officer going home and stops by the store he does not remove his medal ties and rank insignias. (am not saying that I support the dweeb that is trying to using it to help make up for some inferiority complex.) I have to say that the most annoying thing that I have to constantly put up with is having some one make some statement that I can't be a pilot due to my age. This problem of perception is something that individuals wearing backpacks will only exasperate. I have heard people that it is easer to just use a Back pack. It would be really easy to show up in flip flops, shorts, and a tee-shirt and in two day you can turn it inside out and go the rest of the Trip. We have uniforms and appropriate conduct in order to bolster public confidence. How much confidence you would have in your attorney if he showed to court in a sloppy suite and a Back pack.

Yes some day all FOM will have no back packs, no ---, no ---, no --we will reach a point that the FOM will be twice the size as all the systems books. In the mean time could be please self regulate ourselves. Other wise we will reach a point where the regulations on what we can and can’t dot will be unbearable.

 

[acaTerry]

Hey,
I resemble that remark, I think all the uniform Nazis that rant and rave about uniforms, hats and backpacks are possibly the same ones who PFT'd. Professionalism is defined differently in the dictionary, hats and backpacks are not mentioned. Wear a thong, and flip-flops, I don't care just vote with me at contract time for more money. Otherwise relax and enjoy that 350hrs a month TAFB.
PBR

I'm not a uniform nazi by any means, I just think that backpacks look stupid on pilots, have never emerged until recently and are just another sign og the immaturity of the losers who show up to work looking like garbage and complain about the pay, lack of respect, etc.
Rezz O. Lewshun has been making a lot of good points, but too much to stomach for many of the babies in here.
BTW, I never PFT'd. I waited it out and instructed longer until the whole thing blew over..

 

[CapnVegetto]

CaptnVegetto, you arguement for the backpack is solid on the premise of how you feel about it. As I said before it is not about me rather we.
Let's change the backpack to facial jewelry. For some reason, lets say for discussion, pilots started wearing eyebrow and lip rings. A pilot can insist all day long that he is professional but the looks and stares from his passengers suggests something else. It is what they believe. If your chief pilot, fellow crewmembers and passengers believe you are professional then you are. If they don't....then you aren't.


So here are my arguements. Debate them.

1. Backpacks give the image of a teenager and/or student. Anti-Pro.
2. Professionals don't wear their luggage.
3. Backpacks were not a uniform issue until the new millenium.
4. Some pilots wear the backpack even though thier FOM says no.
5. It is what our customers, employeer and fellow pilot believe.

Ok, my response:

You are comparing apples to oranges. These are two totally different things, looked on two completely different ways by society. Eyebrow rings and lip rings are a far sight more 'progressive' than backpacks. That's like sentencing someone to the death penalty for jaywalking. You have to use some common sense. Read my previous post about wife-beaters and cutoffs. I realize it's not a gallup poll, but in relation to this topic, I asked my neighbor what she thought of a pilot wearing a backpack, (this is the same one I mentioned in a previous post), and here exact words were, "What?? I don't care about that." I realize it's not a poll or anything, but it's an example of customers believe.

Now I offer this:

1. Customers don't care. They go whereever the cheapest ticket is. They have proven this time and time again with travelocity, expedia, priceline, etc. No brand loyalty. They don't care who's flying them as long as they can pay $39 bucks a leg.

2. Employer. If they cared, why did my FOM say nothing about it? Why does my current FOM say nothing about it? Why do a lot of the FOM's out there say nothing?

3. Fellow pilots. Once again, as in my previous post, this message board is the first time I've EVER seen or heard anything negative about wearing a backpack. No DO, CP, check airman, captain, or first officer has EVER said ANYTHING to me about it. EVER. My argument doesn't need to change here.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Would you wear a packback to a dream job interview? SWA, jB, FX, UPS? Where I work a pilot applicant could wear a clown suit and get hired. But I wouldn't and that is just where I work.

And yes, FN FAL is gay.

Oh yeah, and none of those jobs are my 'dream job'. I have no interest in working for SWA, JB, AT, and while FX and UPS are great jobs, flying on the wrong side of the clock just wouldn't work with me. My career aspirations are quite different then most.

 

[FN FAL]

Then what're you doin' here bud?

hehehehe...I just never thought we'd see this many pages of dialogue on backpackers v. non-backpackers.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

It depends on where you work. When I was a corporate pilot, there were times that I carried a backpack if it was a trip with just one short overnight. I knew my passengers though...and I knew the folks that I worked with. They were all confident in my abilities, and couldn't care less about a backpack. As far as anyone else, I really didn't care whether they liked it or not since they weren't contributing to my paycheck. At the airlines, its different...I would never go to work with a backpack. I don't know the people that I'm flying, and they do not know me. I already look like a high school kid (can't really help it), but if I make it worse by acting like one or by carrying around a backpack that isn't going to give them much confidence in myself or my airline. Thats just my opinion though.

 

[FN FAL]

And yes, FN FAL is gay.

Hah hah hah...just because I wear festoons on my roll along, it's no reason to call me names!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok, my response:

You are comparing apples to oranges. These are two totally different things, looked on two completely different ways by society. Eyebrow rings and lip rings are a far sight more 'progressive' than backpacks. That's like sentencing someone to the death penalty for jaywalking. You have to use some common sense. Read my previous post about wife-beaters and cutoffs. I realize it's not a gallup poll, but in relation to this topic, I asked my neighbor what she thought of a pilot wearing a backpack, (this is the same one I mentioned in a previous post), and here exact words were, "What?? I don't care about that." I realize it's not a poll or anything, but it's an example of customers believe.

Now I offer this:

1. Customers don't care. They go whereever the cheapest ticket is. They have proven this time and time again with travelocity, expedia, priceline, etc. No brand loyalty. They don't care who's flying them as long as they can pay $39 bucks a leg.

2. Employer. If they cared, why did my FOM say nothing about it? Why does my current FOM say nothing about it? Why do a lot of the FOM's out there say nothing?

3. Fellow pilots. Once again, as in my previous post, this message board is the first time I've EVER seen or heard anything negative about wearing a backpack. No DO, CP, check airman, captain, or first officer has EVER said ANYTHING to me about it. EVER. My argument doesn't need to change here.

Is it common sense? The eyebrow ring is certianly more attention getting. That is why I used it, to emphasize the point. Consider how you feel about a fellow pilot wearing an eyebrow ring, is the how the anti backpackers feel about you wearing a backpack. Especially when worn over both shoulders. Is that how you wear it CaptnVegetto? With both shoulder straps over your shoulderboards? Or just casually over one shoulder? Kinda laid back, laisser faire?

Therefore, if you want it to be ok to wear a backpack then it is also ok to wear a eyebrow stud. Where does one draw the line? Who gets to decide what is ok and what is not. Obviously you want to decide that backpacks are ok. Your FOM doesn't say you CAN use backpacks. It doesn't say you CAN"T wear eyebrow studs.

1. We all want the most for the cheapest price. Pax want the cheapest price but they's rather have a jet than a prop airplane. I think they'd rather have a conservative professional image than not. And does your neighbors (lack of) concern determine whether you care? IOW, as a professional pilot, since my neighbor doesn't care and my passengers don't care...guess what... I don't care!

2. Your FOM doesn't say much about tongue studs and eyebrow rings. Do you need it to? Are you getting the point? Do you wear a tie cause your FOM says so, or because it is a uniform standard?

3. And at my airline they don't say much either. That doesn't mean it is ok. I saw a pilot with a goatee the other day. WTFO? Beards and goatee on pilots work in Europe. But we are not in Europe. No one has said much to you at work, (do you need them too?) but yet you are getting a loud and clear message right here right now.


This backpack issue is a fine line and I'd rather debate this, to get to promote individual understanding of the uniform, than whether or not it is professional as pilots to wear tongue studs.

Just keep in mind that when one wears a pilot uniform there is a level of responsibility in that one pilot can speak for thousands. All we have is our image. Your "don't judge a book by its cover" arguement doesn't work because all our passengers and customers have is our image and behavior. They don't watch us fly and don't have access to our flying records. Sarcasm on: One passenger to the other. "Did you see our pilot? He looks like a beach bum in shorts and sandals when he sat down in the cockpit." Other passengers replies "yes, but looking at his 10 year training history he has never failed a checkride!" Sarcasm off.

When I functioned as a Captain, I realized my effectiveness with my crew and passengers was greatly impacted by my appearance and behavior. And when I had a FO that had attention getting variations in his appearance and behavior, I didn't say anything but I also didn't give him as much credit in his abilities as a pilot. And as a Captain, I don't have to. I am not going to wait until a WX event to see if this guy can cut it.... IOW, if he can't wear the uniform right and stop swearing for five minutes how do I know he holds himself to a high standard when it comes to flying? I don't, I have to wait two or three legs to see howthis guy flies and that is not fair to me or him. When I was an FO, I knew alot about the Captain I was with by his image and behavior.....and how effective I was going to be for him/her.

Looks like we are going round and 'round and coming to a agree-to-disagree.

Different schools of thought.......old school-new school?

Besides someone will tell us to get a room soon. I'll bet FN FAL will be there

 

[PCL_128]

First of all, Rez is far from being a "crusty old guy." Believe it or not, some of us that care about a professional image are not all that close to retirement age. You don't have to an old geezer to care about a professional image.

Second, I think it all comes down to one simple question: "If I wear this, will a significant portion of the flying public think it looks unusual or unprofessional for an airline pilot?" If the answer is yes, then don't frickin' wear it! You and I as pilots know that wearing a backpack is no indication of how well someone can fly, but a large portion of the public won't see it that way. Can you honestly say that a large portion of the flying public wouldn't find it odd or unprofessional for an airline pilot to be wearing a backpack? Be honest now.

 

[AeroDork]

I'm a corporate pilot and the President of the company carries a backpack instead of a briefcase. He's the most unorganized, airheaded, inconsiderate, forgetful person I know. It doesn't instill much conficence when he shows up with a half open backpack with junk falling out. I'd like to know what other business executives think when he shows up to meet with them and he's pulling junk out of his goofy backpack.