Throw your flashy cliche' to rest. Its nothing more than a quirky ramble that makes those fortunate enough to have been blessed with "Good timing" to praise themselves for their positions. This industry "DOES NOT" reward hard work but rather "timing". I and many have paid years of "dues" and are long overdue for reward.
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Looks like CAL/UAL MECs want the RJs
- Thread starter johnsonrod
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Throw your flashy cliche' to rest. Its nothing more than a quirky ramble that makes those fortunate enough to have been blessed with "Good timing" to praise themselves for their positions. This industry "DOES NOT" reward hard work but rather "timing". I and many have paid years of "dues" and are long overdue for reward.
ohplease!
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,477
Yo! Dipsh!t... Climb of the high horse ( that friggin' nag is really tired ) and actually READ. I didn't say put anyone in front of anyone. Quite the contrary.
Here, I'll put it in caps so you can see it... STAPLE THE REGIONALS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. THEN, PUT UP FENCES TO KEEP SOME YAHOO RJ PILOT FROM THINKING HE SHOULD BE A 777 captain AT 25 YEAR PAY AAANNNNDDDD TO KEEP SOME MAINLINE ASS FROM TRYING TO TAKE MY QOL AND STICK ME WITH SOME SH!tty RES NEWARK NONSENSE.
Of course the furloughs should go back in front! Idiot. Make the fence for 20 years.... I don't care.
THEN add the new hires on the bottom of the WHOLE thing.
Nobody loses seats ( either way) or QOL and it all ends up back under one roof with double the voting power and no where to whipsaw.
I'm sure its not THAT easy but, it can't be that hard...
Chairman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
- Posts
- 401
I don't remember the same consideration when all the 727 737 DC 10 were being parked and the 700's and E170's were showing up in droves. I lost my seat pay and was offered $19 if I wanted to continue flying!
Just watch...the days of "buying" are over. The days of management "giving" have begun. If they don't give enough, they don't get their generational wealth payday.
ohplease!
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,477
That would be an issue for you to take up with your company , your union and those folks senior to you who were apparently unwilling to make enough concessions to keep you working. At least you were offered something.
ASA Captain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2005
- Posts
- 129
And, if you remember, we at ASA obtained preferential interviews and no seniority resignations for furloughees.
Small step, but pretty important to those who needed work. You could thank your senior brothers for not securing better scope so you could have flown the RJ for mainline or at least did flowback if you had offered flowthrough.
Small step, but pretty important to those who needed work. You could thank your senior brothers for not securing better scope so you could have flown the RJ for mainline or at least did flowback if you had offered flowthrough.
nimtz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,442
Can you guys step back and look at what were doing here.
- Current Bottom line: most regional flying is 50 seaters
- Fact: 50 seaters are driving the bean counters nuts due to limited
economics
- Fact: 70 seater economics only marginally better
- Bean counter wet dream: bigger 'RJ' to replace every small 73 and
A319
That is what is we want stopped. No rational person expects us to get the new UAL to park all of it's regional feed tomorrow. What we are doing is letting the economics of the airframes take care of that problem over the years. So when those contracts run out years from now, most likely Uncle Jerry will have to send them to Cambodia.
Management wants us to get in line with previous practice of not flying anything made by Bombardier or Embrarer. Those days are done. Senior down to junior pilots have been f*cked by that line of thinking too many times. CO/UA pilots will do what we have to do to ensure that the last mad decade of regional growth will NEVER happen again.
As for the regionals, it's already playing out. Margins are tightening and costs are trending up. What's the solution, mergers. That will put a bandaid on the problem for maybe five-seven years. Nevertheless, Uncle Jerry and Rev Bedford will not have the golden growth ticket of 70+ seats that they need to grow in the long term. After all regionals don't do well if they are stagnant, that's why your bosses are always liking boots trying to get more 'upgrades'.
Keep your CRJ '9' for the years ahead, but don't expect to be there in 10 years. Sh!t I never thought that about the EMB-135's I flew left seat in. And based on that, I don't shed a tear for you guys who are scolding us for wanting to drag this profession out of the gutter...
- Current Bottom line: most regional flying is 50 seaters
- Fact: 50 seaters are driving the bean counters nuts due to limited
economics
- Fact: 70 seater economics only marginally better
- Bean counter wet dream: bigger 'RJ' to replace every small 73 and
A319
That is what is we want stopped. No rational person expects us to get the new UAL to park all of it's regional feed tomorrow. What we are doing is letting the economics of the airframes take care of that problem over the years. So when those contracts run out years from now, most likely Uncle Jerry will have to send them to Cambodia.
Management wants us to get in line with previous practice of not flying anything made by Bombardier or Embrarer. Those days are done. Senior down to junior pilots have been f*cked by that line of thinking too many times. CO/UA pilots will do what we have to do to ensure that the last mad decade of regional growth will NEVER happen again.
As for the regionals, it's already playing out. Margins are tightening and costs are trending up. What's the solution, mergers. That will put a bandaid on the problem for maybe five-seven years. Nevertheless, Uncle Jerry and Rev Bedford will not have the golden growth ticket of 70+ seats that they need to grow in the long term. After all regionals don't do well if they are stagnant, that's why your bosses are always liking boots trying to get more 'upgrades'.
Keep your CRJ '9' for the years ahead, but don't expect to be there in 10 years. Sh!t I never thought that about the EMB-135's I flew left seat in. And based on that, I don't shed a tear for you guys who are scolding us for wanting to drag this profession out of the gutter...
buscap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 999
I have heard this argument so many times. It is a shortsighted view of the problem and solution. Trying to protect your flying based on aircraft size (seats) or type (jet or prop), is how we got into this trouble.
As long as you allow a single Cessna Caravan to codeshare a ticket under your brand, you will perpetuate the problem. That little Cessna which you don't want on your seniority list because you are just too darn good a pilot to fly it, will eventually grow like a cancer. You will be right back where you are now.
In the military we had a term called "mission creep". Call this one "scope creep".
The only real solution is to take all the planes and all the pilots in house in one big suck. Staple, b-list seniority, fences, whatever. In house with one MEC. Maybe separate LECs for the regional guys? Get creative. Make it happen.
Wait for the contracts to expire and you will only give management an opportunity to find a way to circumnavigate the scope language and shop the flying for an even cheaper rate. Set a schedule to get all the planes and pilots in house on a given date and bam.
Regional type flying is obviously profitable and needed, and should be done in house. I know you guys hate the idea of your buddies starting out at mainline on a prop or little jet and even worse is the thought of sharing a union with us scum, but we both know it is the best solution-all or nothing.
Sure, you're going to inherit some weirdos who would've never made it past the interview, but that's what training departments are for. But weirdos aren't such a bid deal anyway. We both know you already have some on property. And let's not forget about the card carrying scabs.
nimtz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,442
I don't give a rat's @ss what equipment a newhire starts on. If some former military guy has a bug up his @ss that his buddy is too good to fly a C Series jet then too freaking bad. That's fairly unlikely and in the end not really a problem.
Yes in a dream world we all have one happy list and a 22 year old starts flying 1900's and happily dances down the yellow brick road. It didn't happen in the past and it won't happen in the future. Besides could someone explain how in an age of 'fee for departure' and 'risk arbitrage' it would be possible for a mainline pilot group is to integrate a feeder like Skywest or god forbid Republic?
I understand your point about loopholes, but that is for people far smarter then me. The bottom line is the 50 seaters have peaked and will make great beer cans in 10 years time. Uncle Jerry and Rev Bedford know this and that's why they pray to the almighty at night that CAL/UAL is dumb enough to completely cave on scope. The regionals will always survive in some capacity, but the days of providing 50%+ domestic lift will end. Some of you obviously have a big problem with that...
Yes in a dream world we all have one happy list and a 22 year old starts flying 1900's and happily dances down the yellow brick road. It didn't happen in the past and it won't happen in the future. Besides could someone explain how in an age of 'fee for departure' and 'risk arbitrage' it would be possible for a mainline pilot group is to integrate a feeder like Skywest or god forbid Republic?
I understand your point about loopholes, but that is for people far smarter then me. The bottom line is the 50 seaters have peaked and will make great beer cans in 10 years time. Uncle Jerry and Rev Bedford know this and that's why they pray to the almighty at night that CAL/UAL is dumb enough to completely cave on scope. The regionals will always survive in some capacity, but the days of providing 50%+ domestic lift will end. Some of you obviously have a big problem with that...
buscap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 999
Thinking small my friend. Thinking small. Your solution won't work.
nimtz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,442
And the odds of yours happening are about as likely as The Mets playing .800 ball in September...
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Very well stated. The Regional guys have watched larger planes being brought to them thanks to legacy bankruptcies, and all the while KNOWING this was wrong. Jerry from SkyWest and the Rev from Republic are counting on Scope dwindling so they can take on the next stage of larger RJs and possibly 100 seaters, but unfortunately for them the legacies are now in an upswing financially, which gives the unions more say and less BK judge intervention. It's time to remold scope boys and girls, and bring some of the 76 seaters over to the mainline side, and keep everything larger, including the 100 seater that will be coming eventually.
To all of those 76 seat Captains looking to extend their free ride to larger planes without the interview at a major to do so, welcome to the real world. (Joe Merchant and Ohplease!) It will be interesting to see how this pans out for the UAL/CAL pilots. If something does stick, it will then happen at the other legacies as well most likely. And someone said that this might have been mentioned already at a newhire class at DL---something about DL wanting to fly 76 seaters at mainline since they already own some of the planes.
Something good out of this could be eventually more jobs for regional guys to interview for at the majors, after the furloughed pilots are offered jobs back first of course! Get the popcorn ready, and again thanks to the CAL/UAL MECs for finally bringing this to the table. Stay strong guys!
Bye Bye--General Lee
Most of what you write is correct, but the economics of the 70 to 90 seat RJ platforms are TONS better than the 50 seaters. For a start, the 70 seater carries nearly half again more revenue (40%) and is less operationally limited. The 76 seater (with First Class) ideally carries nearly twice the revenue at a similar operational cost of the 50 seater.
The difference puts the large RJ platform into the CASM which makes it a viable replacement for mainline equipment and that is what it has been employed to do.
You are correct the battle is moving to the C Series and a 100 seat scope limit. I believe the UAL/CO position is an opener, which hopes to move the battle front closer to their position than starting at 70 seats and conceding more outsourcing from there.
Given the number of furloughs at the mainline carrier, they have to focus on job protection provisions in this merger. The Delta pilots had the luxury of not having to do their merger with pilots involuntarily on the street.
whymeworry?
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
- Posts
- 701
First of all, we're getting rid of the B-scale. So the days of 1st yr pay at $30- $36,000/ yr are over. It will be closer to $55-60,000 starting once our contract is signed (though I admit that is still a B-scale wage), which means you could do $75-85,000 first year with o/t and rigs once new contract is in play.
Second, 1st yr pay is just that... 1st yr. It ramps up pretty quickly thereafter. Sure it's a hit to downgrade your lifestyle for that first year, but it's certainly doable and that first year goes by quick... so do the 2nd and 3rd. Thousands upon thousands of pilots have done it before you.
Too many RJ drivers focus in on that year-1 pay. Whereas you're looking at 20-25 years beyond that if you're in your late 30s to early 40s and still at a regional.
So you sell your car, rent out your house, scale back. It's only for a short period then you'll be making more money than an RJ Captain and working far less... and you know what? You pay will go up every year for the next 12 yrs in the worst-case scenario that you don't upgrade.
The problem I had with staying at a regional was that I had pretty much maxed out on pay. Sure it would go up a couple of bucks a year, but hardly enough to compete with the longer-term projection of a major career.
I took some HUGE (I mean frigging HUGE) hits to scale back and come to a major. But I have no regrets. It's simply a different industry altogether.
But don't bother telling any of this to Pocono Pilot. She has all the answers. Better follow her advice instead.
Last edited:
ohplease!
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,477
don't get me wrong there general....let me make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to you that the last thing on my bucket list is to end up flying with the likes of you. Although I realize there are 14000 or so at"delta", the chance of spending hours next to some of you is enough to send me into another career altogether.
Have no fear, I have other opportunities in hand as this industry/economy start back the other way... Can't speak for Joe or others.
That being said, you are dead wrong about your predictions...
I'm just sayin'
ASA Captain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2005
- Posts
- 129
"KNOWING this was wrong"
Get off your high horse and put down that tube of glue you've been sniffing. You gave it up. Remember United + 1%. I do. That's when we got an order of 400 between ASA/CMR. When you guys ended up in bankruptcy or trying to stay out of it you gave up more, by force or by choice.
You could have, at any time in the past, secured brand scope. You could have stomped your feet, made it the #1 issue. But it wasn't.
Don't try to pretend that we or the guy sitting in your right seat had anything to do with this mess.
Look in the mirror.
Get off your high horse and put down that tube of glue you've been sniffing. You gave it up. Remember United + 1%. I do. That's when we got an order of 400 between ASA/CMR. When you guys ended up in bankruptcy or trying to stay out of it you gave up more, by force or by choice.
You could have, at any time in the past, secured brand scope. You could have stomped your feet, made it the #1 issue. But it wasn't.
Don't try to pretend that we or the guy sitting in your right seat had anything to do with this mess.
Look in the mirror.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Dead wrong, eh? You hope so. The days of RJs ruling the skies are OVER. 50 seaters and smaller are starting to go to the boneyards. The FAA mandates new hiring rules that will be in effect within the next few years, making your part of the industry more expensive (won't be able to find 200 Hour Empty Nipple jet driver wannabees to do it for nothing). New rest and fatigue rules that will again make you less efficient thanks to continuous duty overnights most likely going away and restrictions on number of legs per day. Legacy MECs wanting their flying BACK, something you have NO control over. I'm telling you, it's not looking great for you and Joe Merchant in the future if you stay at the likes of ASA. Jerry in St George can slam his hands on the table all he wants, but that won't make the mainline unions budge at all. It will only get tougher for you guys, but the good thing is you all MAY have the ability to get an interview for the RIGHT seat of a 70 seat RJ at a legacy. But, both you and Joe will probably flunk the psych tests. So, no need to worry about flying with me, and if you are a ramper and look thirsty, I MAY throw you a small Dasani water from the Captain window to the ramp below. But drink it fast, you still have a lot of bags to load.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
A lot of your senior Captains that couldn't get hired anywhere else thanks to DUIs, lack of college, FAA violations, or just laziness (Joe and Ohpleae!) loved the fact that planes were getting bigger, without them having to interview anywhere (they knew they could not or would not be hired anyway). A few years before mainline BKs, there were hardly any jets over 50 seats (excepts some Bae146s at ASA and some Avros at Mesaba), and mostly props. That has now given way to many CR9s, E175s, etc---all thanks to BK. Well, that needs to change, and hopefully it will. The CAL and UAL MECs know they have UAL/CAL in a corner, since management wants a Single Operating Certificate ASAP for Wall St. and their own big bonuses. With the MECs coming out right away demanding change in a public way, I think they mean business, which isn't good for the Regionals.
Bye Bye--General Lee
buscap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 999
General, for once I'm not going to start my rebuttal with an insult, though your eyes are too close together and highly deserving derision.
But I will once again point out the need for you to read my previous posts. My solution will work, it simply is more difficult.
But something we have all ignored in this, is that crew costs are not the only cost gap between mainline and regional. All our costs have been driven down from dispatch, to mechanics, to cabin crews.
All or nothing is the only thing which will keep your career expectations safe. Continental mainline has the tightest scope in the industry and it has gotten them where? You've got to get the 50 seat jets and props on property.
Further-your reference to 76 pilots leads me to believe that is where you draw the line. Clearly a case of shiny jet syndrome. That ailment will eventually lead to another case of regional cancer in the future.
All or nothing, sir. All or nothing.
Have the fortitude to strike for all the flying or quit whining about RJs.:beer:
ASA Captain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2005
- Posts
- 129
What a turd.
You know very well, not that you would bother being intellectually honest, that some stay for other reasons. Some for QOL. Some for family reasons. Some tried and failed, but most are of more character than you will ever be.
I am sure your group has it's own share of DUI, nuts, and plain tools, present company included. To deny this is to show your lack of integrity.
As to the BK being the reasons for all the small jet growth, well that is just as dishonest. I don't know where you work, nor do I care. But every mainline carrier, save SWA, gave up scope for money.
In every bankruptcy case, the judges put you under the gun. They took away your ability to strike, but you got to negotiate for what you got. You chose your poison and scope was not it.
But the aircraft that started this all was well before BK courts. Well before 9/11.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2000/05/01/65188/coming-of-age.html
Let's not try to deny history and point fingers at those who did nothing to start this. Point fingers instead at those who sold out the profession because of greed, arrogance, and shortsightedness.
Now that this falsehood has been put to rest, if you want to scope the RJ, you might want to open your checkbook.
I propose to put your ego aside and work with the regional, oh wait that's right we are a Major thank you, MECs so that it won't cost as much to re-scope the RJ. You obviously don't need to buy them from us, you will have to buy it at the table, but we can help accelerate this and save some of your negotiating chips for other things.
We at ASA have done a good job of supporting the profession, keeping the floor under you as high as we could get it.
United we stand, divided we fall. You should think about it, honestly.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Some stay for QOL? Really? You mean the top 2 guys? Great. I never said all the RJ growth was due to BKs, but the last couple were, the raising the limit from 70 to 76, and adding more 70 seaters. It was a recipe for disaster, which actually accelerated a BK. High fuel prices and the great deals Regionals got from a wounded legacy (where the legacies paid for all fuel bills, along with a guaranteed profit for the regional), created monster airlines. And, now that is about to change. SkyWest for example now has to throw it's RJs out there at their own expense and hope it works, with no guarantees (to feed Airtran in MKE for example), which is the way it should be ANYWAY. No more special favors for FEED.
As far as ASA goes, they have been our "friend" since 9-11, and I have stated that more than once in the past. But, RJs have not helped this profession at all, and have only brought down wages and good paying jobs. That needs to stop.
As far as bringing out our pocketbooks, how's that again? It will be OUR contract negotiations that will occur in 2012, and the economy and other factors will lead to a large RESTORATION of pay, not a pay "raise." We already had high pay, and that was NOT the reason for the BK. Anything CAL and UAL do will be copied by the other legacies, and better financials and an upswing in this industry means Regionals may take a hit after upcoming negotiations. Remember, the legacy controls the feed, and more than once a legacy has had to pay up to break a contract with a particular feed. That is just the way it goes. We all will be hoping and cheering for CAL/UAL MECs and know they will stay strong, especially since they pubically made this demand ahead of the actual negotiations, which the company wants DONE by year's end. Sounds like leverage to me if those management guys want their bonuses by XMAS.
And, more mainline jobs could result because of all this, and that means some of you can escape your regionals for a better life---which really is a better QOL. That is what you should strive for, not being the top of a regional. It's great ASA kept the bar up as high as you could etc, but now is the time you need to also understand that a lot of people were hurt by the rise of the RJ, and many were furloughed to allow your own people to thrive. It's time to bring them back, and then we can all figure this out to try to make this industry better for all of us. And, the real "turd" is the 50 seat RJ climbing slowly ahead of us through 20,000 ft. Less than 500 FPM? Really? Now that is a turd and you know it.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Last edited:
sweptback
Guess that wasn't solid
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Posts
- 1,876
General,
I'm not going to get into it with you, but I will say this.
ASA pilots were happily flying turboprops until your pilot group gave them 50-seat jets to fly.
Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 50-seat jets until you gave them 70-seat jets to fly.
Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 70-seat jets until you gave them 76-seat jets... you see the pattern here?
If you want to stop us from flying your passengers, then take back the scope. That's fine with most of us, since all but about the top 30% or so want to move on to greener pastures. But don't blame us for the situation you find yourself in, as your pilot group created it, and we just do as we're told.
That is all.
I'm not going to get into it with you, but I will say this.
ASA pilots were happily flying turboprops until your pilot group gave them 50-seat jets to fly.
Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 50-seat jets until you gave them 70-seat jets to fly.
Then, ASA pilots were happily flying 70-seat jets until you gave them 76-seat jets... you see the pattern here?
If you want to stop us from flying your passengers, then take back the scope. That's fine with most of us, since all but about the top 30% or so want to move on to greener pastures. But don't blame us for the situation you find yourself in, as your pilot group created it, and we just do as we're told.
That is all.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Just remember that some of that was FORCED. We never wanted a huge blast of extra 70 seaters, or 76 seaters that were handed to you from the BK judge. A lot of it does need to go back to mainline. It is great that the UAL/CAL MECs finally have some leverage and the cajones to go for it. Hopefully it will set a good example for the rest of us to follow. But, this idea has been in the mind of management too---after the Colgan crash and resulting examination of training procedures at some regionals etc.. Add to that the new hiring requirements by the FAA, and new fatigue rules that will be added within the next year. After all of that, it is no wonder that legacy managements may be looking at their own changes (as stated to a new hire class at DL a couple weeks ago). Heck, they own some of the planes (CR9s) already.
Bye Bye--General Lee
GL
I see a lot of posturing by yourself and by other people who have no say as well. When is this revolution scheduled for? It always seems to be some far flung date in the future. So far all I see is the market and management making driving the changes. Yeah, 50 seat aircraft are being parked, but SkyWest has never been busier. When is this sleeping lion of labor going to awaken? The UA/CO merger has many talking about reclaiming flying but I would suggest its a placebo. Makes you feel good, but doesn't do anything for you. I heard the same talk after the NW/Dal merger yet we had as much DAL flying as we could handle. I look forward to ALPA trying to exert itself, last time it did I believe you got unlimited Jsauthirization. Good Luck.
I see a lot of posturing by yourself and by other people who have no say as well. When is this revolution scheduled for? It always seems to be some far flung date in the future. So far all I see is the market and management making driving the changes. Yeah, 50 seat aircraft are being parked, but SkyWest has never been busier. When is this sleeping lion of labor going to awaken? The UA/CO merger has many talking about reclaiming flying but I would suggest its a placebo. Makes you feel good, but doesn't do anything for you. I heard the same talk after the NW/Dal merger yet we had as much DAL flying as we could handle. I look forward to ALPA trying to exert itself, last time it did I believe you got unlimited Jsauthirization. Good Luck.
airjackson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2002
- Posts
- 226
Excuse me while I choke just a bit on the irony of ex-regional and current mainline pilots cheering the (soon to be) end of the regional airlines.
Good luck reclaiming the flying. In my opinion, the best case would be to simply stop the bleeding of larger and larger aircraft being flown by the regionals. Where was the moral outrage when the mainlines were hiring and growing? Anyone? It seems they were too happy to give away the farm (scope) as long as things were stable with the mainline. Sure, BK didn't help but the seeds were sown long before then.
There are plenty of places to point fingers. How hypocritical of a pilot who came up through the regionals, who owes his very career to that experience, to chest-thump about how "evil" that same regional is. Get a freakin grip, or at least shut the F-up and let others with a modicum of integrity make the argument.
Good luck reclaiming the flying. In my opinion, the best case would be to simply stop the bleeding of larger and larger aircraft being flown by the regionals. Where was the moral outrage when the mainlines were hiring and growing? Anyone? It seems they were too happy to give away the farm (scope) as long as things were stable with the mainline. Sure, BK didn't help but the seeds were sown long before then.
There are plenty of places to point fingers. How hypocritical of a pilot who came up through the regionals, who owes his very career to that experience, to chest-thump about how "evil" that same regional is. Get a freakin grip, or at least shut the F-up and let others with a modicum of integrity make the argument.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Sorry Russ, it just can't all be done in one day. But, there can be "drop dead" dates on contracts, or those contracts could be broken by the legacy (might be expensive though). When it comes down to it, the management and Wall Street want this merger (UAL/CAL) done, and done smoothly. Lots of bonuses are riding on it on the management side and by the leaders of the hedge funds that are wanting this. Have you seen the market cap of Delta vs United and CAL put together? DAL is twice as large, which made Wall Street look at this and say "Let's get CAL and UAL together for our own big payday." If they want this to be a non USAir Chaos merger, then they will capitulate, and then get their own bonuses and make the MRS. happy. It is called leverage, and the unions put this all out publically as a must have. When DL/NWA were doing the joint contract, oil was at $130 a barrel, IOW terrible timing. Gas at the pump was over $4 a gallon. Do you remember that? Nobody knew what was going to happen. DL/NWA pilots still got a 17% raise (over 4 years) and lots of stock even during that stressful time. How are things going now? Profits are back, gas is lower (down $3 a barrel today alone), and Wall St wants a clean merger. They are the ones who put the "deadline" for the end of the year. They all want this done. The Colgan crash also made people look at this possibility, and having no say over a Regional's training program and also the possibility of new liability laws in the future (brought up just after the recent law was already drafted) mean the Legacies have to look at this. I don't know if this will happen, but it is a strong possibility. Stronger now than ever.
Bye Bye--General Lee
PeanuckleCRJ
Hurrrrrrrr
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2004
- Posts
- 1,684
Captain X
Who is John Galt?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
- Posts
- 948
Is Jeannie the name of that man in your avatar?
Oakum_Boy
supercalifragilistic
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2003
- Posts
- 2,405
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
