Looks like CAL/UAL MECs want the RJs

[Medeco]

Well this should make the ASA/XJT merger that more interesting. They signed a new 10 or 15yr agreement with Continental/UA as part of the aquisition of XJT.

You can bet managment at UA/CO will fight this hard.

I agree it would be better for the pilots, but its gonna be a long road to get there.

 

[Jetjockey]

Well this should make the ASA/XJT merger that more interesting. They signed a new 10 or 15yr agreement with Continental/UA as part of the aquisition of XJT.

You can bet managment at UA/CO will fight this hard.

I agree it would be better for the pilots, but its gonna be a long road to get there.

Yeah, UAL never breaks contracts, especially with their regional partners.

 

[skywdriver]

In the discussion what is the plan for the fines and penalties that the airline will incur by recovering the lost flying. Does anyone know when the contracts are coming due and what fines and assessments will be levied if the contracts are cancelled?

En Mort Main

No contracts will be broken, they just won't be renewed, so the fines will be 0. This is the most reasonable approach possible. Being a CAL furloughed guy, I would prefer a contract that says no more 70 seat period, but that would be impossible. Mainline will need time to plan for the transition, so it is a perfect plan to do it over 5-10 years.

With the new 90-110 seat "regionals" coming out, 70 seats will be obsolete, so it should be very interesting at the regionals over the next 5 years. I don't see any mainline group giving more scope unless there is another terrorist attack and all the airlines are in bankruptcy court. They have survived the worst economic downturn since the recession with capacity contraint, so I don't see the economy pushing anyone into bankruptcy.

I think the long term outlook for the regionals is back to regional flying - fuel efficient turboprops on short legs to feed mainline. At some point, mainline will want the newer 90-100 seat efficiency rather than the 50-70 seaters, but further scope relief will be needed for the regionals to be able to offer that flying. Thats why I think you will see a transition back into the markets they were originally serving - small regions.

To anyone who is younger than 45 or 50 at a regional, you should all be very happy if this is accomplished. Mainline has been beaten down, so there is only one way to go. I loved my time at skywest, we had better workrules than at Continental, but the flying can't compare in terms of quality of life. I would think very hard about staying at a regional for my career.

 

[79%N1]

And who is going to do all this flying? There are about 7000+ pilos at UAL/CAL regionals. How is the new UAL going to find 7000 pilots to fly all these planes, even if it is done over time? Oh wait, I know....the Regional guys can apply to UAL for a job they already had at 1st year FO rates! Sounds great for a 10-15 yr Captain! How many people does this plan put out of work? THOUSANDS upon thousands of people that work at regional companies in many capacities, from secretarial to VP. The plan sounds so great on paper......Let's take back all 500+ RJ's to mainline UAL! Lets put a half dozen companies out of business, and make all the pilots scramble to find work as a new hires on the planes they already fly.

Maybe the only way this works is UAL absorbs all the companies onto their list. How about date of hire with fences. Do we still have a deal?

 

[whatitdoing?]

Sure.....a high electrical fence with land mines.

 

[bizicmo]

And who is going to do all this flying? There are about 7000+ pilos at UAL/CAL regionals. How is the new UAL going to find 7000 pilots to fly all these planes, even if it is done over time? Oh wait, I know....the Regional guys can apply to UAL for a job they already had at 1st year FO rates! Sounds great for a 10-15 yr Captain! How many people does this plan put out of work? THOUSANDS upon thousands of people that work at regional companies in many capacities, from secretarial to VP. The plan sounds so great on paper......Let's take back all 500+ RJ's to mainline UAL! Lets put a half dozen companies out of business, and make all the pilots scramble to find work as a new hires on the planes they already fly.

Maybe the only way this works is UAL absorbs all the companies onto their list. How about date of hire with fences. Do we still have a deal?

those 10-15 year captain losing their jobs because the flying is being absorbed by mainline is not any different then the flying just being transfered to a different regional and those captain losing their jobs.
Oh wait except then can go on first year at that other regional getting the flying or the mainline getting the flying, you decide what's better?

 

[skywdriver]

And who is going to do all this flying? There are about 7000+ pilos at UAL/CAL regionals. How is the new UAL going to find 7000 pilots to fly all these planes, even if it is done over time? Oh wait, I know....the Regional guys can apply to UAL for a job they already had at 1st year FO rates! Sounds great for a 10-15 yr Captain! How many people does this plan put out of work? THOUSANDS upon thousands of people that work at regional companies in many capacities, from secretarial to VP. The plan sounds so great on paper......Let's take back all 500+ RJ's to mainline UAL! Lets put a half dozen companies out of business, and make all the pilots scramble to find work as a new hires on the planes they already fly.

Maybe the only way this works is UAL absorbs all the companies onto their list. How about date of hire with fences. Do we still have a deal?

A job they already had? Well, I guess in this case that I described they wouldn't have it any more, so that is irrelevant. Why don't you ask the 1400 UAL pilots who got furloughed while the regional fleet grew how bad they would feel about it? My post wasn't a jab at the regionals, it was simply my opinion. There has been tremendous downsizing of mainline fleets due to regional growth, many people have been laid off because of that. I am not blaming the pilots, I enjoyed my time at a regional. I am just saying that if scope gets held here, it may come back around full circle. I have no control except for my vote, whatever happens is going to happen. Markets work themselves out regardless of what I want or what you want.

I am simply making the argument that there is no reason for any more scope relief, hopefully tightening. If that happens, and it is a trend, the regional market will totally change based on what the demands of the legacy carriers are.

You have to understand something - the regionals are not immune to the ups and downs of this industry, in fact I would argue that once the expansion at the regionals stops, they will be more impacted because they rely solely on their legacy partners and because the barriers to enter that market are much cheaper than as a standalone LCC so there will always be plenty of regionals fighting for the contracts. This is reality, like it or not.

If the government ever allows cabotage, neither you nor myself will have a job anymore. This is what we signed up for, we can't control any of this stuff, it will just happen as it does. I am just making a bet on it, with no money behind it of course as I am furloughed.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Plenty of CAL pilots formerly at ASA and the like who are kicking themselves for getting involved with a scab outfit with ZERO work rules. I've seen the schedules and I'm glad to not be there or furloughed Untied. This is just more SCAB chest pounding.

 

[BID]

Plenty of CAL pilots formerly at ASA and the like who are kicking themselves for getting involved with a scab outfit with ZERO work rules. I've seen the schedules and I'm glad to not be there or furloughed Untied. This is just more SCAB chest pounding.

oh yeah bro, every single pilot I know from ASA wishes they never came to CAL. In fact, every pilot that came over to our scab airlines regrets it. What I don't understand is why intelligent pilots like yourself didn't talk these poor souls out of it!

why I respond to such a worthless post, I do not know.

 

[Whydoitry]

Plenty of CAL pilots formerly at ASA and the like who are kicking themselves for getting involved with a scab outfit with ZERO work rules. I've seen the schedules and I'm glad to not be there or furloughed Untied. This is just more SCAB chest pounding.

Well then those former ASA pilots can quit. I will bet you any amount of beer or your liquor of choice that there are no former ASA pilots at CAL or United who would take their previous job back.