Looks like CAL/UAL MECs want the RJs

[bizicmo]

Because a lot of guys are making 80,000-100,000 with weekends and holidays off and live in base or have commutable schedules with the time they put in at their regional. Some don't want to go fly at a major - especially in a plane they already fly - and go to first year pay and the least seniority spots. Flame that if you want, but it is true. Spare me the dissertation on how you own us, and we should be thankful for the scraps you send us. i'm just answering your question of why some don't want to go fly an RJ at the Majors.

Then stay at your regional. No one will force you to go to a major.

 

[General Lee]

Because a lot of guys are making 80,000-100,000 with weekends and holidays off and live in base or have commutable schedules with the time they put in at their regional. Some don't want to go fly at a major - especially in a plane they already fly - and go to first year pay and the least seniority spots. Flame that if you want, but it is true. Spare me the dissertation on how you own us, and we should be thankful for the scraps you send us. i'm just answering your question of why some don't want to go fly an RJ at the Majors.

That may not be the case very much longer. As scope gets tighter and and 50 seaters continue to go away, regionals will start to shrink. Fewer and fewer Regional pilots will be able to make that kind of dough most likely. Also, first year pay has risen at some legacies, and getting on early could mean the difference of being a line holder or reserve within the first year. I think the main opposition a lot of these senior RJ Captains have is leaving the left seat and learning to take orders again. (or even a walkaround) That will change, probably. And do they really think they will ALWAYS fly an RJ at the Majors? Really? They won't move up? Sounds like they are afraid to try anything new.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[79%N1]

What I'm saying, fellas, is that it would suck for many guys making $90/hr with their pick of schedules to go to say......United, and make $40/hr as an FO on the same RJ they used to fly! Moral arguements on who should fly the plane aside, I am giving you a REALITY! Most of those types of guys may have kids in College, mortgages, etc...
This is why it would be hard for some folks to make said switch. Leave the politics out for a second and think about the people before you pound your chests and say 'we're taking the flying and getting rid of you regional guys'. If you can't do that, then I do not want to have this, or any other discussion with you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What I'm saying, fellas, is that it would suck for many guys making $90/hr with their pick of schedules to go to say......United, and make $40/hr as an FO on the same RJ they used to fly! Moral arguements on who should fly the plane aside, I am giving you a REALITY! Most of those types of guys may have kids in College, mortgages, etc...
This is why it would be hard for some folks to make said switch. Leave the politics out for a second and think about the people before you pound your chests and say 'we're taking the flying and getting rid of you regional guys'. If you can't do that, then I do not want to have this, or any other discussion with you.

Said senior pilots who decided to stay at an vendor were making a choice... regionals compared to mainline isn't as stable for the long term...

Having said that, if a regional is ALPA, then those ALPA pilots should get some type of longevity (not seniority) credit if they come over....

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The arrogance of these mainline pilots is astounding. But then again, it's really not. I've seen it on my jumpseat for the last 13 years. Let's just say it has been a major turnoff on going over to the "Big D". May have to rethink that, guys, 'cause it looks like they're intent on destroying what we've worked for. And spare me the 'it wasn't yours to begin with' crap.. It is and was, "ours". We negotiated the pay which is entirely liveable. Every time one of these Gen Lee creeps walks up and throws his bag behind my seat, I'm reminded why I never applied and why I'd probably never fit their "proflie".

 

[General Lee]

The arrogance of these mainline pilots is astounding. But then again, it's really not. I've seen it on my jumpseat for the last 13 years. Let's just say it has been a major turnoff on going over to the "Big D". May have to rethink that, guys, 'cause it looks like they're intent on destroying what we've worked for. And spare me the 'it wasn't yours to begin with' crap.. It is and was, "ours". We negotiated the pay which is entirely liveable. Every time one of these Gen Lee creeps walks up and throws his bag behind my seat, I'm reminded why I never applied and why I'd probably never fit their "proflie".

Hey, at least you already realize that you don't fit the "profile." And what you "worked for" was GIVEN to you by BK judges. There was Scope before they got a hold of it in BK. Guys like Fred Greed at DL decided business people LOVED FREQUENCY, so he ordered more and more RJs, realizing too late that people actually HATE them. And when he went over to Virgin America, did he order any RJs? Answer---NOPE. Hmmmm. And it's great that you negotiated a "liveable" wage. Forget it if you want your kid or kids to go to an out of State college. Forget it if you want to buy a new car every couple years. Nope. But, at least you have a "liveable" wage....????? Higher wages was NOT the reason an Airline went BK, rather the problem was a certain CFO sold off fuel hedges too early, or too many RJs went up against LCC 737s or 717s, and there was NO way to get a profit on those routes. But hey, you would rather negotiate a "liveable" wage and just skim by...... Enjoy eating fast food the rest of your life and never ever using a fork or knife again. You need to change your attitude fast. Never settle for low wages, or just "liveable wages." This industry deserves better.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[chppr5]

And who is going to do all this flying? There are about 7000+ pilos at UAL/CAL regionals. How is the new UAL going to find 7000 pilots to fly all these planes, even if it is done over time? Oh wait, I know....the Regional guys can apply to UAL for a job they already had at 1st year FO rates! Sounds great for a 10-15 yr Captain! How many people does this plan put out of work? THOUSANDS upon thousands of people that work at regional companies in many capacities, from secretarial to VP. The plan sounds so great on paper......Let's take back all 500+ RJ's to mainline UAL! Lets put a half dozen companies out of business, and make all the pilots scramble to find work as a new hires on the planes they already fly.

Maybe the only way this works is UAL absorbs all the companies onto their list. How about date of hire with fences. Do we still have a deal?

When UAL went form 10800 pilots in 2001 to the 6500 pilots now, you didn't have a problem filling in for the 4000+ pilots put to the street that already paid their dues in the military and feeder airlines. I'm a former commuter pilot and people like you make me sick. When your airplane has YOUR airline painted in BIG print on the side then you can gripe about job loses. It was OUR flying that we gave away, now we will take it back!

 

[chppr5]

What I'm saying, fellas, is that it would suck for many guys making $90/hr with their pick of schedules to go to say......United, and make $40/hr as an FO on the same RJ they used to fly! Moral arguements on who should fly the plane aside, I am giving you a REALITY! Most of those types of guys may have kids in College, mortgages, etc...
This is why it would be hard for some folks to make said switch. Leave the politics out for a second and think about the people before you pound your chests and say 'we're taking the flying and getting rid of you regional guys'. If you can't do that, then I do not want to have this, or any other discussion with you.

How about those people THEY replaced at the mainline carriers? They may have had "kids in college, mortgages, etc" you d@#%he bag!!!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Easy come, easy go...

That's all I gotta say.

Good luck to all Regional Pilots.

You will love flying for the mainline for more money and better working conditions.

You should all embrace this change. It's better than any flowthrough.

I lost my airline job to LOA 93 at US Air which allowed for more RJs than mainline jets. I will not be coming back but I look forward to the mainline job that was mine going to a good pilot out there willing to make good money and work with great work rules.

Enjoy guys!

Uncle Hulas et all should be the ones afraid. Really, I think that Wexford/Repubic should be thanked because they were the ones that showed the majors what happens when they let other companies do the flying and make the money. (Frontier and Midwest).

 

[79%N1]

When UAL went form 10800 pilots in 2001 to the 6500 pilots now, you didn't have a problem filling in for the 4000+ pilots put to the street that already paid their dues in the military and feeder airlines. I'm a former commuter pilot and people like you make me sick. When your airplane has YOUR airline painted in BIG print on the side then you can gripe about job loses. It was OUR flying that we gave away, now we will take it back!

Man, do you ever need to chill out and grab a beer! You getting all irate at me is hilarious! I simply answered a question that was asked....'why aren't all the regional pilots giddy to go fly RJ's at the Majors'? (Hypothetical) I explained why some dudes may not be thrilled with that idea! And your blood pressure rises! You don't have any idea where I stand on the issue, or what my goals are for the furure! And, you all act as if we regional guys had a choice where to work....like someone took a poll and said, 'would you guys prefer to fly mainline planes on mainline routes, or would you prefer flying an RJ at a regional?" And we all voted, and the regional choice won out, so all the Majors management got together and took the flying from you and gave it to the regionals! Not so. Do you not think I would have just LOVED going from flying twins for charter to a mainline heavy???? Certainly I would have! But guess what? They weren't hiring! Management decided to shrink companies like Delta, United, American, etc.... NOT ME! So I had to go where the job was. So that makes you sick? So sorry to disappoint you with my career path. Now, the guys you hate at the regionals, the ones that are Captains on 70+ seat jets that "stole" all your flying and put guys at the majors on the streets.....they were more than likely working at their selected regional long before the major downturn! Many in fact were hired in the early to mid 80's and for one reason or another were happy where they were! They also never voted to "steal" jobs from mainline! They wer PUT there! And one more thing....it's a risk both ways on where you decide to go! Many guys choose to NOT go to a Major due to the RISK involved in being junior and the possibility of furlough there! The guys that UNFORTUNATELY got furloughed knew that risk, and accepted it! I guess just the same as the guys that risk staying at the Regional! There is a risk both ways. As far as taking it back, I wish you luck. The fact that I make you sick, and raised your blood pressure to near stroke level is laughable, since I simply answered a question.

 

[Shrek]

Man, do you ever need to chill out and grab a beer! You getting all irate at me is hilarious! I simply answered a question that was asked....'why aren't all the regional pilots giddy to go fly RJ's at the Majors'? (Hypothetical) I explained why some dudes may not be thrilled with that idea! And your blood pressure rises! You don't have any idea where I stand on the issue, or what my goals are for the furure! And, you all act as if we regional guys had a choice where to work....like someone took a poll and said, 'would you guys prefer to fly mainline planes on mainline routes, or would you prefer flying an RJ at a regional?" And we all voted, and the regional choice won out, so all the Majors management got together and took the flying from you and gave it to the regionals! Not so. Do you not think I would have just LOVED going from flying twins for charter to a mainline heavy???? Certainly I would have! But guess what? They weren't hiring! Management decided to shrink companies like Delta, United, American, etc.... NOT ME! So I had to go where the job was. So that makes you sick? So sorry to disappoint you with my career path. Now, the guys you hate at the regionals, the ones that are Captains on 70+ seat jets that "stole" all your flying and put guys at the majors on the streets.....they were more than likely working at their selected regional long before the major downturn! Many in fact were hired in the early to mid 80's and for one reason or another were happy where they were! They also never voted to "steal" jobs from mainline! They wer PUT there! And one more thing....it's a risk both ways on where you decide to go! Many guys choose to NOT go to a Major due to the RISK involved in being junior and the possibility of furlough there! The guys that UNFORTUNATELY got furloughed knew that risk, and accepted it! I guess just the same as the guys that risk staying at the Regional! There is a risk both ways. As far as taking it back, I wish you luck. The fact that I make you sick, and raised your blood pressure to near stroke level is laughable, since I simply answered a question.

Ok where do you stand on the issue and what are your plans for the future?

 

[79%N1]

My plan is I would love to fly at a major. Not many hiring these days or at anytime in my tenure at the regionals. If I do ever get to go on, I hope it's NOT to fly an RJ at 1st year rates. Been there. Done that. I also hope that mainlines grow, all pilots currently there or ever there in the future have secure careers. I hope the same for those that choose to stay at their regional or that are stuck there due to limited hiring in the future.

 

[Shrek]

My plan is I would love to fly at a major. Not many hiring these days or at anytime in my tenure at the regionals. If I do ever get to go on, I hope it's NOT to fly an RJ at 1st year rates. Been there. Done that. I also hope that mainlines grow, all pilots currently there or ever there in the future have secure careers. I hope the same for those that choose to stay at their regional or that are stuck there due to limited hiring in the future.

Seems reasonable enough and believe me when I say I know where you are coming from as well. I came from the regionals among other jobs and I have met plenty of pilots that either stayed there by choice or by life circumstances.
Good family men that were just trying to make a living and to try to shield their families from the wild up and down swings of economy and management policies.
But the stress needs to be aimed in the right direction and not at pilots that have lost so much and are close to getting a fraction of what they had back.
In all things in life there will be winners and losers and we can't tell which camp we are in until we retire.

Hope we are both in the camp we want to be in when we pack it in for the rocking chair and the stories to the grandkids ......

 

[damnflyboy]

There needs to be an overhaul of the entire airline system where experience & aptitude decide pay---and longevity decides seniority/benefits. Of course, that would require pilot unity across company lines.............[insert maniacal laughter here]