Latest ASA offer

[legalalien]

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.
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Well I spoke to YP and CM from the CNC about 10 days ago. That is not a position that they were holding on to. At least not in the last round of "supposals".

Doug retires shortly so a B plan would be of no use to him if that is what you mean.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Talking to other crews is certainly scientific research data. Maybe the MEC and CNC should get rid of the Wilson Center Polling and let you conduct your unbiased poll and save some money. I am certain you could do the job and we can be assured of the accuracy of your data.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Is BW Brian Wilson?

Lately the union has done a poor job of keeping us informed about what is going on so a good rumor beats nothing. If a supposal/proposal was made, I shouldn't have to read about it on fltinfo.com. The union should have sent the details for us to review.

The invite for free/dues paid meal is nice but can't make it and shouldn't have to for negotiations updates.

Fly Safe...

 

[601Pilot]

There is no deal, but the negotiating members say there is an offer. Why would the negotiators say there is an offer if there isn't one? Are you saying that the two sides can't negotiate without the NMB? What if the the NMB doesn't allow us to negotiate? Should we just sit here and let Skywest transfer the flying while we wait for the Board. The offer has been made, let the membership vote on it. I will accept the membership's vote on it, will you?

After reading all of your crap, I see why SWA didn't hire you. I guess we are stuck with you at ASA.

 

[ASADriver]

Well I spoke to YP and CM from the CNC about 10 days ago. That is not a position that they were holding on to. At least not in the last round of "supposals".

Doug retires shortly so a B plan would be of no use to him if that is what you mean.

Doug says a retirement plan is still attainable and it high on his list. I don't think that is reasonable. Doug is also the one that said this offer from the company was unacceptable because of PBS, but that there was an offer.

 

[ASADriver]

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.

I think the Company's offer should be recognized for what it is. A pretty good offer.

In the mean time more and more of "ASA's" flying is being transferred and Skywest is talking to Delta about changing the names on the asset purchase agreement. After all, ASA's deal to do 85% of the Atlanta DCi flying can be changed almost instantly to read "SkyWest."

What are we waiting for - an Atlanta SkyWest base? We know it's coming.

I agree.

 

[ohplease!]

What was offered was called a "supposal." That's different than a proposal. A supposal is an informal "what if" scenario. "Let's just suppose that we offer you this, what would you think?" There is no guarantee that they would also formally offer the same terms in front of the mediator if the CNC agreed in principal to the supposal. Informal sessions are great for trying to find middle ground and make some progress, but they are not intended for making offers. There are very strict guidelines under Section 6 bargaining that dictate how these things are done. They are meant to protect both parties. To agree in principal to an offer that hasn't even been officially proposed would be a big mistake. Your CNC and MEC were smart to dodge that bullet.

semantics AGAIN! I don't care what you choose to call it....ASA made an offer/supposal/proposal/what if/who dun'it/whatever....the CNC turned away from it because of PBS among a couple other issues....actually Yngve said to me and others "they gave us nearly everything we were asking for but, it was all tied to PBS....

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

 

[ohplease!]

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

I'm sure they would. But, you've missed the whole point of the discussion. dumbass. But, thats perfectly normal for you. Never mind the facts....of anything....just shout out loud how much of a dumbass you are.

ignorant moron!

 

[ASADriver]

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

The ALPA negotiators are telling the pilots that the offer included most of what we wanted but it was tied to PBS and we aren't interested in PBS.

 

[atrdriver]

If it doesn't count meeting without the NMB, then why are meeting with the company? Why is ALPA waisting it's time meeting without the NMB. Sounds like the story is changing again. If it doesn't count, then don't meet.

They are having informal meetings because the company requested them, and ALPA would like to get this contract done. They are not willing to sign a crappy deal to get it done though, and I applaud them for that. Time is working against the company, not us.

 

[atrdriver]

I don't care if it is "official" or not, get it done.

You are so interested in "getting it done" that you are willing to take a substandard contract in that effort. Most of us are not.

 

[atrdriver]

I believe the majority would take the "unofficial" offer, or the Skywest offer that was just posted. I believe some are holding out for alot more.

Yes, many probably would take what Skywest currently has, with the new "offer" thrown in, as long as it was in the form of a binfing contract, and not just a pilocy manual. Except the PBS. This, however, has NOT been offered to us. In fact, the company has not even broached the idea of profit sharing. Why don't you call BL and ask HIM why the company has not offered us the Skywest "contract"? Afraid of what he would say?

 

[atrdriver]

Hoser,
Chris, Yngve, and Doug confirmed there was an offer. They also confirmed that this offer was declined because of PBS. If you are P2P, then why are you lieing about this offer. If you are lieing about this offer, then what else are you lieing about?

There is NOTHING stopping the company from taking their "offer" and giving it to the NMB. They won't do it because they know that the NMB would not consider it enough movement to resume talks. That is from the Chairman of the MEC. If you want to ge the facts, then talk to him. I have. Obviously you haven't.

 

[atrdriver]

So if ALPA has done scientific polling, and it has determined that we don't want this deal, why doesn't it just say so? ALPA wouldn't lie to us would they? Take the deal, and let the membership vote on it. The membership will let you know if it is acceptable. Is ALPA afraid of what the membership will say?

Are you really do dumb that you don't understand that no matter what happens in the informal meetings that it is NOT AN OFFICIAL OFFER until the company goes to the NMB and gets negotiations resumed? Do you REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT???????

 

[atrdriver]

PS- No person over 5'6" or older than 19 actually uses the term DRIVER to describe what they do. Why don't you come stand next to me in the pilot's lounge so I have some place to put my frosty while I eat my Moe's...... dork.

Hey now...

 

[atrdriver]

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

And please tell me that you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have enough common sense to realize that PBS would negate over a year of our negotiations. The company was asked IN THIS NEGIATIONS whether they wanted to pursue PBS, and they said no, THREE TIMES. That is why we spent so much time on section 13. PBS would negate all that time. IF the company wants it now, let them get it in a side letter.

As far as your assertion that it is not that bad once you get used to it, it all depends on what system is used. Some are very good (old TWA system), some are very bad. Most pilot groups that have it report that senior pilots really like it, while the junior pilots don't.

 

[ohplease!]

And please tell me that you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have enough common sense to realize that PBS would negate over a year of our negotiations. The company was asked IN THIS NEGIATIONS whether they wanted to pursue PBS, and they said no, THREE TIMES. That is why we spent so much time on section 13. PBS would negate all that time. IF the company wants it now, let them get it in a side letter.

As far as your assertion that it is not that bad once you get used to it, it all depends on what system is used. Some are very good (old TWA system), some are very bad. Most pilot groups that have it report that senior pilots really like it, while the junior pilots don't.

there absolutely has been a proposal (since withdrawn by the company). I'm not saying the CNC should have but, had they agreed to it, both parties could have and would have called the NMB and it would have been offered "officially".

I've said this same thing several times. IF you could/would chill out, have a reasonable/calm discussion you would see that I have not said the CNC should agree to it.

It was an answer to another knee-jerk reaction by a different "jerk" who consistantly spreads lies and half-truths.

BTW, the CNC will tell you, as they did me and many others, they feel that PBS is probably inevitable at some point. It could be a good thing as long as the software/system is good.

 

[atrdriver]

there absolutely has been a proposal (since withdrawn by the company). I'm not saying the CNC should have but, had they agreed to it, both parties could have and would have called the NMB and it would have been offered "officially".

I've said this same thing several times. IF you could/would chill out, have a reasonable/calm discussion you would see that I have not said the CNC should agree to it.

It was an answer to another knee-jerk reaction by a different "jerk" who consistantly spreads lies and half-truths.

BTW, the CNC will tell you, as they did me and many others, they feel that PBS is probably inevitable at some point. It could be a good thing as long as the software/system is good.

Yes, PBS is probably coming at some point. But, looking at everything else this company does, do you REALLY think that the company is going to get a "good" system? The only way that any PBS system will be good for the pilots is if the union has a lot of control over the software, and I would be willing to bet that the company will fight that tooth and nail.

As far the what was offered being "official", yes the company can call the NMB anytime it wants and give their "proposal" to the mediator for cinsideration. With the "movement" that they have made, it is unlikely that the mediator would even contact ALPA to tell them about it. That is from the chair of the CNC.

 

[ohplease!]

Yes, PBS is probably coming at some point. But, looking at everything else this company does, do you REALLY think that the company is going to get a "good" system? The only way that any PBS system will be good for the pilots is if the union has a lot of control over the software, and I would be willing to bet that the company will fight that tooth and nail.

As far the what was offered being "official", yes the company can call the NMB anytime it wants and give their "proposal" to the mediator for cinsideration. With the "movement" that they have made, it is unlikely that the mediator would even contact ALPA to tell them about it. That is from the chair of the CNC.

I'm not disputing anything you're saying. However, you need to go back and re-read what I've said about this subject before you start yapping about it and getting it wrong.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Time is working against the company, not us.

I also applaud our CNC for their work.

How is it that time is on the side of the pilots? What am I missing?