Latest ASA offer

[ASADriver]

Hey driver, a majority is 50.1%. A few weeks ago we passed a strike vote by 92%. I would say that is quite a majority. A majority that is not interested in non offers by management that are tied to things that polling has clearly shown that the pilot group does not want. Our MEC and CNC knows what the majority of the pilots want because they have paid for Wilson Polling data for the past 4 years.

So there won't be a problem with presenting this offer to the pilots. If it isn't what they want, they can vote it down. Let the pilots decide.

 

[ASADriver]

Speaking to the credibility of "Voice of Reason", the originator of this post... "Voice of Reason" happens to be Joe Merchant's OLDER GIRLFRIEND.

Do you now understand her motivation to undermine the MEC and convince you to settle the contract based on a phantom proposal and lies?

It is true that they made a proposal, but it disappeared when asked to put it on paper. LJ's lies and misinformation are always real. She is bitter that she can't control negotiations this time and transform the contract into a earmark for her and her special interest cronies.

I don't care who put the information out, and I really don't give a damn who dates who. We are talking about jobs and livelyhoods and some of you act like high school girls. Information is a good thing, regardless of who puts it out. The fact that union reps are giving different stories regarding this offer makes many of us question anything the union puts out. In fact, there hasn't much information to come out of the union since the vote.

 

[Bizjet]

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

Why don't you take a chill pill and STFU MR. Dudley. Get Brian and go to the mall and spend some money shopping, have a nice glass of wine when you get home and then bake some biscuits. Leave the votes on verbal proposals to the MEC to sort out and relax. You are not going to get to vote on every proposal management verbally makes in these informal meetings the MEC has with them. Be nice and the MEC may even tell Brian how well you are following his orders so you can have a few more Sticky Stars next to your name at the 10 o'clock briefing Monday morning. Maybe pick up a trip on a bad weather day. That should give you and all pilots flying something real to worry about. For a map to the Lot 3 parking lot ask Brian L. for his and run a copy. When you show up to duty in make sure you go to Concourse C. We moved from the north end of D about 8 years ago. When you go to the aircraft and sit down make sure you are in the correct seat by looking for a tiller on the left side and your right hand should be close to the center console. If not swap seats before anyone notices. Have a nice flight. If Brian Wilson shows up to fly right seat with you make sure you use your cell phone and call in sick. There will be more Sticky Stars for your name for making a command decision in the publics interest. If you do accidentally get airborne don't be alarmed if you see a new runway in ATL. You should have that in one of your Jepps revisions if you did your G/O job and ordered them. Have a wonderful ASA day!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why don't you take a chill pill and STFU MR. Dudley. Get Brian and go to the mall and spend some money shopping, have a nice glass of wine when you get home and then bake some biscuits. Leave the votes on verbal proposals to the MEC to sort out and relax. You are not going to get to vote on every proposal management verbally makes in these informal meetings the MEC has with them. Be nice and the MEC may even tell Brian how well you are following his orders so you can have a few more Sticky Stars next to your name at the 10 o'clock briefing Monday morning. Maybe pick up a trip on a bad weather day. That should give you and all pilots flying something real to worry about. For a map to the Lot 3 parking lot ask Brian L. for his and run a copy. When you show up to duty in make sure you go to Concourse C. We moved from the north end of D about 8 years ago. When you go to the aircraft and sit down make sure you are in the correct seat by looking for a tiller on the left side and your right hand should be close to the center console. If not swap seats before anyone notices. Have a nice flight. If Brian Wilson shows up to fly right seat with you make sure you use your cell phone and call in sick. There will be more Sticky Stars for your name for making a command decision in the publics interest. If you do accidentally get airborne don't be alarmed if you see a new runway in ATL. You should have that in one of your Jepps revisions if you did your G/O job and ordered them. Have a wonderful ASA day!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now that's funny!!!

 

[WWEfan]

So there won't be a problem with presenting this offer to the pilots. If it isn't what they want, they can vote it down. Let the pilots decide.

There has been no offer. The only offers to this pilot group come from our MEC and they have not presented us with one. The pilots have decided and overwhelmingly voted that their MEC speaks for them.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I don't care who put the information out, and I really don't give a dang who dates who. We are talking about jobs and livelyhoods and some of you act like high school girls. Information is a good thing, regardless of who puts it out. The fact that union reps are giving different stories regarding this offer makes many of us question anything the union puts out. In fact, there hasn't much information to come out of the union since the vote.

But you ALWAYS believe the propaganda management puts out, right, William?

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, verbal proposals, or ones written in crayon on the back of a napkin do not make up an "offer" for the union to shoot down. If the company wants to make a serious offer, they need to call the NMB and get back to the table.

Until then no real offer exists, and my MEC did the right thing by telling the company no!!! And you know what? 92.6% of our pilot support the MEC! The last company poll showed that 8% of pilots trust Flight Operations management. Spin that one, Sport!

 

[Firehoser]

Hosehead,

I really do think you are sincere and not just a management stooge. No seriously. I keep reading the numbers you are throwing around and it seems like you never took ECON 101. It's not about cash flow, it's about cost v. investment. You're talking about cash flow numbers, but investors, including JA, are interested in their return on investment.

If the profit looks good against the return, then you can throw expenses out the window. They don't give a crap about the money flowing through the place. That is basic business. It is all a question of whether the company produces a good return on the $$ invested. ASA has a good return on investment, which is why JA bought it to begin with. He doesn't care if the company's monthly cash flow is 3 bucks or 300 million bucks

Good point - you are right - its not the absolute numbers - its the profit numbers in relation to the cost structure - that is in fact the point I was trying to make with my figures. (Don't look at the absolute numbers - look at the profit numbers in relation to the cost numbers). A good non-airline example that also illustrates your point is oil company profits. Their percentage profit hasn't gone up but the price per barrel has - its the producer's price increase that is giving them the huge profit numbers - they are not gouging the public by charging more (in the sense of increasing their profit margins).

But nonetheless every business (and private individual) needs to hang on to some money to weather through the droughts, some money to improve and update infrastructure, and some "play" money available to take advantage of industry opportunites. Its hard to do that on a 7% profit margin with the volumes (cash flow) we are currently looking at, the vunerabilities we have to forces outside our control (fuel price, terrorism, etc.), and the increasing downward pressure on ticket prices as the number of players in our industry increases providing more choice for the customer.

When we are looking at asking for a contract that will cost the company $23+ million dollars, that takes a sizable chunk out of an already relatively low profit figure - we need to understand how what we are asking for may affect the company's ability to weather a serious downturn in their fortunes (and thus ours). Example, what happens when the cash flow dries up as would happen if Delta dropped us the first chance the contract allows? Failing to consider this perspective is the exact mistake the majors made during their last contract negotiations - their companies burned through their cash in a relatively short period of time. On the surface, if a major had 1 billion dollars in cash reserves, that sounds like a huge amount. But as you say, against the total amount of cash flow through the company on a given day, on a relative basis, it may not be much at all.

My goal was to get my peers to see the problem from a different perspective. My point here in this post is that listening to some of my peers, I am struck by their viewpoints: one-sided, narrow, and apparently unable to view the problem from other perspectives and apparently don't want to for fear that their absolute belief in their viewpoint may be called into question by logic and reason. Believing that your viewpoint is the only valid viewpoint and that it should rule the roost is dangerous and is quite simply autocractic, dictatorial and some would say, fascist. Certainly in a representative body that a union is, where in theory, the elected officials job is to represent the majority opinion of the pilots, and in order to have, as one instructor pilot put it to me, an objective, informed opinion, such narrow and rigid perspectives are not appropriate.

And speaking of representation, I agree with ASADriver - why weren't these proposals presented to us, the rank and file pilot for discussion? Like ASADriver, I am tired of sending my union thousands of dollars a year to be represented only to have my positions and decisions dictated to me. The history of representation at this union is rife with this problem.

Thanks for a reasoned rejoinder - I appreciate your maturity and professionalism.

 

[ReportCanoa]

If you can't walk away from this place and do better for yourself, either:

A) Your wife has maxed out your revolving credit and home equity.

B) You think this is a good job.

C) All of the above in which case you need to reevalutae your mental state.

 

[CFIT]

Firehose,
Spot on response.
But it's going to fall on deaf ears.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

When we are looking at asking for a contract that will cost the company $23+ million dollars, that takes a sizable chunk out of an already relatively low profit figure - we need to understand how what we are asking for may affect the company's ability to weather a serious downturn in their fortunes

This statement proves you are either a management-planted bullhorn or a stupid moron.

First, we need to look at the difference in cost between a management-low-ball contract and an "unrealistic ALPA proposal." Of course "23 million dollars" sounds outrageous, but workers ain't free, and it costs millions of dollars to put pilots in cockpits.

Second, workers are not paid with profits. Profits are a result of a well-run company. Workers get paid whether the company makes a profit or not. The excuse that higher wages will reduce profits is an argument saved for shareholder-appeasement, and must also consider worker quality, productivity, morale, and retention in the total "savings"; the paradox of lower wages is that profits also decrease when wages are squeezed for no reason other than greed (for instance, when a company is making huge profits and asks workers for concessions.)

Lastly, a contract should not look forward to some nebulous future market conditions as the yardstick for current wages. If that were fair, why not cancel executive bonuses today in order to protect against a "future downturn"?