Latest ASA offer

[Medeco]

Wrong-
Every cost element is broken down, including crew costs. The overall cost is required to remain within parameters as is individual costs. The second lowest cost requirement is required by 2008' and is a approved provision in the bancruptcy hearings and is available on-line throught the freedom of information act.

It may not sit well with you but the company doesn't need to nor should have to get approval from the pilot group to secure business opportunities. If it is not compatible with your contract then amend, change, or strike until it is.

I have read the document/contract that is public, and the only thing it specifically mandates is that we have the 2nd lowest block hour cost. I says nothing about the pilot cost.

I have asked many, to show me the exact language that says pilots cost must be xxx dollars/hr or less. Nothing so far.

Bottom line for me is, the ramp in ATL cost ASA/SKYWEST and Delta a ton of money. That is a fixed cost they know they could fix and are too stupid to follow through.

Here we are almost a year after the sale of ASA, and just last week our president and VP of ATL airport ops, make the statement at a dinner function that DELTA had ASA operating the ramp for 50% operation, and only now are they saying we are going to hire 300 ramp agents ASAP to get this thing staffed for 100% operation.

Brilliant!

BL was the VP of ground operations before taking the helm and it has taken this long for him to follow through on something so obvious.

Medeco

 

[atrdriver]

Wrong-
Every cost element is broken down, including crew costs. The overall cost is required to remain within parameters as is individual costs. The second lowest cost requirement is required by 2008' and is a approved provision in the bancruptcy hearings and is available on-line throught the freedom of information act.

It may not sit well with you but the company doesn't need to nor should have to get approval from the pilot group to secure business opportunities. If it is not compatible with your contract then amend, change, or strike until it is.

If that was indeed the case then whoever signed something like that would be run out of town by the shareholders. No one can say 2 or 3 years in advance what a specific cost will be. In addition, if that were indeed the case, the company would be happy to show that language to the pilots. It isn't. Fact is, the only thing that must be second lowest cost is the overall block hour cost to DAL. How each company breaks down those block hour costs are up to them.

 

[sweptback]

If that was indeed the case then whoever signed something like that would be run out of town by the shareholders. No one can say 2 or 3 years in advance what a specific cost will be. In addition, if that were indeed the case, the company would be happy to show that language to the pilots. It isn't. Fact is, the only thing that must be second lowest cost is the overall block hour cost to DAL. How each company breaks down those block hour costs are up to them.

We went back and forth on this in a recurrent class with SH. He basically admitted that Delta doesn't care about pilot costs, as long as the overall product is cost competitive.

I believe we can find a happy medium where both the company and the pilots are happy. However, the company has to start negotiating.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

so, CFIT...

whence thy pomposity original?

Freedom of information says you're full-o'-schit!

 

[av8er2]

Exactly, Delta only cares what to write the check for. Don't lie to us!! We are sick of it. Get your arse in gear and fix the the things that really cost ASA a lot of money and it is not the pilots.

 

[blueridge71]

This rumor has been confirmed on the ALPA board by a LEC Rep.

I dunno why ALPA turned it down.

There has not been any polling in a while now.

Wilson called me just a couple of weeks ago. It was around the time of the vote, but I don't remember the exact date.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta management refused to negotiate with ASA/Comair for flying because they feared the large number of Delta pilots and the clout that comes with those large numbers.

All of us are responsible for the problems we now face. Mainline pilots should have never given away any of the undesirable flying. That was the start of all their problems. Now they are starting new carriers to provide jobs for their furloughed pilots. This is no accident. The code share pilots are in the race to the bottom. Mainline will use these new carriers for low cost jobs and in the future many of the pilots entering the work force will likely start at these NEW Union created airlines and move over to the newly down sized mainline carriers as positions open. The regional’s as we know them will consolidate and some will just go away. ALPA has no problem with this strategy.

We need to DEMAND SCOPE and if ALPA can't support us in obtaining it we need to ask for outside counsel to prevent ALPA from just going through the motions and saying SCOPE is just not available this time around.

You and I agree on a lot. But, there are a couple of mistakes in your facts which you might want to consider.

First, it was ALPA, not Delta, that objected to our MEC negotiating scope, or even participating in negotiations which involved our pay and working conditions. Here are the letters from Duane Woerth which explain to Delta Management that they can not enter into negotiations with the ASA pilots. Delta says they are willing to negotiate with whoever ALPA sends to the table.

http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

This denial of our representational rights set us on a course for the scope problems we have now. Following these letters we wrote ALPA what would happen (whipsaw) and filed grievances over ALPA's refusal. ALPA refused to hear the grievances forcing us to take the matter to Court, giving birth to the RJDC to fund the litigation.

No, I do not feel the ASA pilots share in the "responsibility" for ALPA's scope failures. Our MEC did a lot (particularly in the early days of this fight) to represent our interests. ASA pilots have taken the matter on, funding and fighting, for our representational rights. I'm very proud of my support for the RJDC and feel it is the best hope of saving our union.

Most of what you write, especially your last two paragraphs are right on the money. You are correct that this industry is likely to see a couple of regional airlines fail and ALPA is pleased to let this happen. You also very correctly point out that we probably need our own Counsel (not a Northwest Airlines Pilot on Medical Leave) advising our MEC. I would volunteer to pay a special assessment to fund our own Counsel.

Our MEC and CNC have a tremendously difficult and important task ahead of them. My crystal ball tells me we are about 10 miles in trail of Mesaba, but I really hope & pray that I am wrong.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[PCL_128]

I'm very proud of my support for the RJDC and feel it is the best hope of saving our union.

Reminds me of a classic nonsensical quote from the Vietnam era: "It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it." Your efforts will do nothing but destroy our union and our profession. Despite what the good Major from Vietnam told Mr. Arnett, you can't save something by destroying it.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Coopervane, where'd you find that hot mama avatar??????

Copied it from "your new FO" thread



No, actually it's my girlfriend. Why?


Who gets to be the highest paid DCI pilot?

 

[ASADriver]

Biscuit, this 'ain't comair, and our pilots are a lot stronger. My comment above is that I don't want them to be sucseptible to you and your management buddies propaganda. That's what killed comair. The pilots never called for a vote, the MEC offered it, and management hijacked it.

If our pilots are "alot stronger", then you don't have to worry. It would be voted down. Some of us aren't "sucseptible to management propaganda", we just don't always believe ALPA's propaganda. We are smart enough to make our own decisions.