Latest ASA offer

[FORESTGUMP]

But you ALWAYS believe the propaganda management puts out, right, William?

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, verbal proposals, or ones written in crayon on the back of a napkin do not make up an "offer" for the union to shoot down. If the company wants to make a serious offer, they need to call the NMB and get back to the table.

Until then no real offer exists, and my MEC did the right thing by telling the company no!!! And you know what? 92.6% of our pilot support the MEC! The last company poll showed that 8% of pilots trust Flight Operations management. Spin that one, Sport!

You guys keep bringing up this 92% over and over.....NEWS FLASH.....92% isn't terribly impressive for a strike vote. Particullarly when you consider 15% didn't bother to show up.

I'll go out on a limb here and say if the offer (that isn't REALLY an offer...yet)being talked about here the last few days here was put out to the members, it would pass by 60%+.

It IS time for ALPA to start getting something to US to decide on.

just my .02

 

[Willy21]

And speaking of representation, I agree with ASADriver - why weren't these proposals presented to us, the rank and file pilot for discussion?

I am not trying to bash you but if the mediator is not there then they are not official proposals. They are just "what if" sessions. The MEC is not going to pass anything on to the pilots until it is negotiated in mediated talks and is in line with the data the Wilson Center has gathered.

The company made a big move in my opinion. I am wanting them to follow through and sit down in real sessions and get this contract done. That would show me that they really want to get a deal done. That would also show me that they are ready to assume the leadership of our company.

 

[atrdriver]

You guys keep bringing up this 92% over and over.....NEWS FLASH.....92% isn't terribly impressive for a strike vote. Particullarly when you consider 15% didn't bother to show up.

I'll go out on a limb here and say if the offer (that isn't REALLY an offer...yet)being talked about here the last few days here was put out to the members, it would pass by 60%+.

It IS time for ALPA to start getting something to US to decide on.

just my .02

But, when you consider that of that 15%, I have personally talked to about 30 pilots who waited until the last minute and couldn't vote because they couldn't access the system over the weekend. And each and every one of those had planned to vote yes. That would have put the 92.67% even higher. Plus a good number of that 15% were recent departures that are no longer eligible to vote.

I think you are wrong, if the PBS system was explained to the pilots I think that their latest "supposal" would have gone down in flames. There is still no premium on the table, and a 2:1 duty rig does NO good without a trip rig. That is still a paycut for most, and most are not willing to take a paycut.

And Firehoser, to go by your logic, why don't we all just work for free just in case there is a future downturn.

 

[601Pilot]

If you can't walk away from this place and do better for yourself, either:

A) Your wife has maxed out your revolving credit and home equity.

B) You think this is a good job.

C) All of the above in which case you need to reevalutae your mental state.

Copy Dat!!!

 

[blueridge71]

I've also talked to several pilots who had problems accessing the ballot.

 

[HoserASA]

Why don't you take a chill pill and STFU MR. Dudley. Get Brian and go to the mall and spend some money shopping, have a nice glass of wine when you get home and then bake some biscuits. Leave the votes on verbal proposals to the MEC to sort out and relax. You are not going to get to vote on every proposal management verbally makes in these informal meetings the MEC has with them. Be nice and the MEC may even tell Brian how well you are following his orders so you can have a few more Sticky Stars next to your name at the 10 o'clock briefing Monday morning. Maybe pick up a trip on a bad weather day. That should give you and all pilots flying something real to worry about. For a map to the Lot 3 parking lot ask Brian L. for his and run a copy. When you show up to duty in make sure you go to Concourse C. We moved from the north end of D about 8 years ago. When you go to the aircraft and sit down make sure you are in the correct seat by looking for a tiller on the left side and your right hand should be close to the center console. If not swap seats before anyone notices. Have a nice flight. If Brian Wilson shows up to fly right seat with you make sure you use your cell phone and call in sick. There will be more Sticky Stars for your name for making a command decision in the publics interest. If you do accidentally get airborne don't be alarmed if you see a new runway in ATL. You should have that in one of your Jepps revisions if you did your G/O job and ordered them. Have a wonderful ASA day!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now dat thars funni....love it!

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

being talked about here the last few days here was put out to the members, it would pass by 60%+.

Sorry old chap, but I don't think so! Management types that post on here don't get a VOTE!

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

Regardless, verbal proposals, or ones written in crayon on the back of a napkin do not make up an "offer" for the union to shoot down. If the company wants to make a serious offer, they need to call the NMB and get back to the table.
Until then no real offer exists, and my MEC did the right thing by telling the company no!!! And you know what? 92.6% of our pilot support the MEC! The last company poll showed that 8% of pilots trust Flight Operations management. Spin that one, Sport!

Hey MrDudley. Why don't you ask BL why he won't return to the table? Until then anything said at these "unofficial" meetings does'nt count. If you really have some balls, contact one of the MEC officers, or a CNC member. They'll talk to you. Or even one of us P2P Reps.

Hoser
P2P

 

[JoeMerchant]

The SkyWest pilots need a reason to join a union. An ASA successful T/A will provide some of that impudence they need to challenge JA and his writing his rules as he goes along mentality. Delta never wanted to merge the two airlines (ASA/Comair). They realized that buying us was a mistake but were so far behind the 8 ball that it took a bankruptcy to get them to sell us for some emergency cash. They couldn't sell Comair because the value of Comair was much less than ASA. It also gave regional managements a chance to have mainline airline management write code share contracts that encouraged the race to the bottom if they were to acquiring flying.

We are not likely to get SkyWest pilots to want a single list with us. They need a reason and that will be provided with an ASA quality contract. Scope is a separate issue. We need to buy our own scope as part of these negotiations. Every pilot here should be willing to make it a strike issue. However, many won't because they see themselves as just passing through. In order to have success at our level we must get certain contractual language and Scope is the most important. JoeMerchant wants us to gut our contract giving us nothing to negotiate with. We will have MOST pilots then wanting to leave this debacle of an airline because the MEC was weak. We know his race to the bottom is not well thought out. His hatred for ALPA and this MEC is forcing him to choose the wrong strategy. If you have nothing this management wants there are no deals to be struck.

Our pilots also have to believe in the power of the pilots to bring this deal to a close. Many continue to do everything possible to keep this airline running. That is NOT THEIR JOB. If Delta and SkyWest management don't care about our passengers why should we voluntarily add that to our job description? If the pilots could just understand that THEY are the key to a successful contract we could close this deal in a few months. The company is stalling because they think time is own their side. Given enough reasons they could approach the NMB and request to return to the table and the NMB would restart negotiations. They would then have to produce or we would be much closer to a release. We need to stop the informal talks with our management because they are not the decision makers. We need to convey this message to the NMB that two times now our management has requested to stop negotiations in order to cost out our proposals and then seek permission from the decision makers to give them more negotiating capital. Who they are talking with needs to be at the table and the NMB needs to be pressured to bring them in. We need to engage in collective bargaining and stop this collective begging. Again our pilots are the key to all of this. The younger pilots need to realize that they are never going to get this management to respect us. All they need to do is look at how they treat the passengers that provide the revenue for our existence and easily understand that respect for us (the ones who require pay to continue to provide our services) is not possible or even necessary. Fear is a much stronger weapon against an abusive management than gaining their respect. If they fear us and the power of the pilot group to act as one they will actually behave as though they like and respect us. Comair had this in 2001 but due to their union leadership getting weak over the last two years has made that nothing more than a memory.

Back to the scope question. Delta pilots do not own scope. They lease it in every contact they sign. If they owned it they wouldn't continue to have to pay for it. They then trade if off for something they value more. Delta management refused to negotiate with ASA/Comair for flying because they feared the large number of Delta pilots and the clout that comes with those large numbers. Delta management knows that the Delta pilots will trade away part of the scope they just leased. This allows the regional’s to continue to grow and Delta to shrink. This provides a balance in the allotted flying and less power for the Delta pilots. All of us are responsible for the problems we now face. Mainline pilots should have never given away any of the undesirable flying. That was the start of all their problems. Now they are starting new carriers to provide jobs for their furloughed pilots. This is no accident. The code share pilots are in the race to the bottom. Mainline will use these new carriers for low cost jobs and in the future many of the pilots entering the work force will likely start at these NEW Union created airlines and move over to the newly down sized mainline carriers as positions open. The regional’s as we know them will consolidate and some will just go away. ALPA has no problem with this strategy. It is time to start defending the regional airlines that still have descent contracts and encourage minimum contract standards to ensure the quality of the jobs. Once we just give away our hard fought contracts we have lost. We will never get them back.

We need to DEMAND SCOPE and if ALPA can't support us in obtaining it we need to ask for outside counsel to prevent ALPA from just going through the motions and saying SCOPE is just not available this time around.

Pay attention to the organizing drive at SkyWest. If ALPA pushes for a vote before ASA has a quality T/A it will likely fail. If ASA produces a quality contract and copies are provided to all SkyWest pilots to read it will create the numbers to make for a strong vote for union representation. ASA is carrying the fight for the whole regional industry. This is the most important fight for the top tier regional’s because if we fail JA WINS. ALPA and their creation of their own alter ego airlines WINS. Mainline management WINS by having most of the growth shifted to the newly ALPA sponsored low cost junior seniority alter ego preferred carriers as growth is slowly shifted. Those working at the new alter ego carriers will find life in the minor leagues tolerable because it is the way to the quality mainline jobs in the future. They will be pulling on the same end of the ALPA rope. Things will be better for everyone except those that have many years invested in building the regional industry to where is is today and looking to increase the quality of these airlines in the future. LIVING TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY IS NO LOINGER AN OPTION. We are being tested NOW. This is the most important contract fight and ASA pilots were not chosen to lead the fight is was just dumped in their lap. Too many other carriers have already shown they will buy growth and play the race to the bottom game. There are only a few regional’s left who have not sold out. Which list will we be added to. Show this management that you have had enough and will do YOUR JOB only!!!!!!!!

Bizjet, I actually agree with much of what you say, but I don't agree that our hope should lie in SKYW pilots joining ALPA. We would be better off making a single list a part of the section 6 negotiations. The only time a pilot group has forced a holding company to form a single list, has been during section 6 negotiations. It has happened 3 times.

1. Mesa/CCAir/Freedom
2. Republic/CHQ
3. EGL - Wings West, Simmons, Executive, Flagship

Those are the only cases of a pilot group forcing a holding company to form a single list among the various pilot groups flying under that holding company. In every single case, not all the groups were ALPA.

Every single case of an ALPA carrier trying to force a single list with other ALPA carriers, has failed. We tried with DAL and CMR in 2000 and we tried it with CMR subsequently. Neither attempt was successful.

So tell me, why would SKYW be different? What will make our situation different if we don't pursue it in section 6 and instead put our eggs in the "ALPA will take care of it" basket?

You actually have a fairly good comprehension of the issues, I just don't understand why you think SKYW joining ALPA will be any different than CMR or DAL being ALPA. It didn't work with them, it won't work if we wait for SKYW to join ALPA. We should push for it in section 6 like EGL, CHQ, and Mesa did.

 

[ASADriver]

There has been no offer. The only offers to this pilot group come from our MEC and they have not presented us with one. The pilots have decided and overwhelmingly voted that their MEC speaks for them.

There is an offer from the company. Even the CNC has verified it. They don't like it because of PBS, but there is an offer. The pilots did vote to strike, and they deserve to be kept in the loop as to what the current offer is.