Latest ASA offer

[Crash Pad]

It is well documented that I'm not a big fan of ALPA. That said, SKYW pilots make more than us. The asset transfer has nothing to do with pilot pay we are already cheaper than SKYW across the board.

It could be about breaking the union.
It could be about setting up the merge.
It could be negotiation muscle.

It is not about money. We make a lot less than SKYW in all of our aircraft.

 

[PCL_128]

There isn't a deal, but there is an offer.

No, there isn't. I think it's time that you get educated on the process. Start here: http://www.nmbfacts.com/RLA-Index.htm

The union won't pass it on to the membership, why not? Let us decide.

There's nothing for you to vote on. The supposal was never formally offered in the form of a proposal, so you have no document to actually vote on.

ALPA isn't concerned about what will happen if Skywest transfers our flying.

ALPA is your pilot negotiators and MEC. These guys fly the same routes and airplanes that you do. You think they don't care that they could be out of a job if the flying gets transferred? They're in the same position as you. Remember, ALPA national isn't in the driver's seat here, your own CNC and MEC are. They have the same concerns that you do, but they are using common sense and analytical reasoning to come up with real solutions and good strategy. You might try it sometime rather than jumping to emotional conclusions.

 

[ohplease!]

No, there isn't. I think it's time that you get educated on the process. Start here: http://www.nmbfacts.com/RLA-Index.htm



There's nothing for you to vote on. The supposal was never formally offered in the form of a proposal, so you have no document to actually vote on.



ALPA is your pilot negotiators and MEC. These guys fly the same routes and airplanes that you do. You think they don't care that they could be out of a job if the flying gets transferred? They're in the same position as you. Remember, ALPA national isn't in the driver's seat here, your own CNC and MEC are. They have the same concerns that you do, but they are using common sense and analytical reasoning to come up with real solutions and good strategy. You might try it sometime rather than jumping to emotional conclusions.

there absolutely has been a proposal (since withdrawn by the company). I'm not saying the CNC should have but, had they agreed to it, both parties could have and would have called the NMB and it would have been offered "officially".

 

[PCL_128]

there absolutely has been a proposal

What was offered was called a "supposal." That's different than a proposal. A supposal is an informal "what if" scenario. "Let's just suppose that we offer you this, what would you think?" There is no guarantee that they would also formally offer the same terms in front of the mediator if the CNC agreed in principal to the supposal. Informal sessions are great for trying to find middle ground and make some progress, but they are not intended for making offers. There are very strict guidelines under Section 6 bargaining that dictate how these things are done. They are meant to protect both parties. To agree in principal to an offer that hasn't even been officially proposed would be a big mistake. Your CNC and MEC were smart to dodge that bullet.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There isn't a deal, but there is an offer. The union won't pass it on to the membership, why not? Let us decide. ALPA isn't concerned about what will happen if Skywest transfers our flying.

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.

I think the Company's offer should be recognized for what it is. A pretty good offer.

In the mean time more and more of "ASA's" flying is being transferred and Skywest is talking to Delta about changing the names on the asset purchase agreement. After all, ASA's deal to do 85% of the Atlanta DCi flying can be changed almost instantly to read "SkyWest."

What are we waiting for - an Atlanta SkyWest base? We know it's coming.

 

[legalalien]

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.
.

Well I spoke to YP and CM from the CNC about 10 days ago. That is not a position that they were holding on to. At least not in the last round of "supposals".

Doug retires shortly so a B plan would be of no use to him if that is what you mean.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Talking to other crews is certainly scientific research data. Maybe the MEC and CNC should get rid of the Wilson Center Polling and let you conduct your unbiased poll and save some money. I am certain you could do the job and we can be assured of the accuracy of your data.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Is BW Brian Wilson?

Lately the union has done a poor job of keeping us informed about what is going on so a good rumor beats nothing. If a supposal/proposal was made, I shouldn't have to read about it on fltinfo.com. The union should have sent the details for us to review.

The invite for free/dues paid meal is nice but can't make it and shouldn't have to for negotiations updates.

Fly Safe...

 

[601Pilot]

There is no deal, but the negotiating members say there is an offer. Why would the negotiators say there is an offer if there isn't one? Are you saying that the two sides can't negotiate without the NMB? What if the the NMB doesn't allow us to negotiate? Should we just sit here and let Skywest transfer the flying while we wait for the Board. The offer has been made, let the membership vote on it. I will accept the membership's vote on it, will you?

After reading all of your crap, I see why SWA didn't hire you. I guess we are stuck with you at ASA.

 

[ASADriver]

Well I spoke to YP and CM from the CNC about 10 days ago. That is not a position that they were holding on to. At least not in the last round of "supposals".

Doug retires shortly so a B plan would be of no use to him if that is what you mean.

Doug says a retirement plan is still attainable and it high on his list. I don't think that is reasonable. Doug is also the one that said this offer from the company was unacceptable because of PBS, but that there was an offer.

 

[ASADriver]

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.

I think the Company's offer should be recognized for what it is. A pretty good offer.

In the mean time more and more of "ASA's" flying is being transferred and Skywest is talking to Delta about changing the names on the asset purchase agreement. After all, ASA's deal to do 85% of the Atlanta DCi flying can be changed almost instantly to read "SkyWest."

What are we waiting for - an Atlanta SkyWest base? We know it's coming.

I agree.

 

[ohplease!]

What was offered was called a "supposal." That's different than a proposal. A supposal is an informal "what if" scenario. "Let's just suppose that we offer you this, what would you think?" There is no guarantee that they would also formally offer the same terms in front of the mediator if the CNC agreed in principal to the supposal. Informal sessions are great for trying to find middle ground and make some progress, but they are not intended for making offers. There are very strict guidelines under Section 6 bargaining that dictate how these things are done. They are meant to protect both parties. To agree in principal to an offer that hasn't even been officially proposed would be a big mistake. Your CNC and MEC were smart to dodge that bullet.

semantics AGAIN! I don't care what you choose to call it....ASA made an offer/supposal/proposal/what if/who dun'it/whatever....the CNC turned away from it because of PBS among a couple other issues....actually Yngve said to me and others "they gave us nearly everything we were asking for but, it was all tied to PBS....

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

 

[ohplease!]

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

I'm sure they would. But, you've missed the whole point of the discussion. dumbass. But, thats perfectly normal for you. Never mind the facts....of anything....just shout out loud how much of a dumbass you are.

ignorant moron!

 

[ASADriver]

No Sh1t huh?? If we offered to work for free I imagine they would have called the NMB too.

Idiot.

The ALPA negotiators are telling the pilots that the offer included most of what we wanted but it was tied to PBS and we aren't interested in PBS.

 

[atrdriver]

If it doesn't count meeting without the NMB, then why are meeting with the company? Why is ALPA waisting it's time meeting without the NMB. Sounds like the story is changing again. If it doesn't count, then don't meet.

They are having informal meetings because the company requested them, and ALPA would like to get this contract done. They are not willing to sign a crappy deal to get it done though, and I applaud them for that. Time is working against the company, not us.