Latest ASA offer

[CFIT]

Is PBS that big a deal for management? How big a deal is it money wise? The more I learn about it, the more it sounds like a bad thing.

However, scope is so much more important. Why doesn't anyone seem to care about Secton 1? What good are pay rates if SkyWest will replace the pilots earning those rates?

If it is the same system that is being used at SkyWest (AOS) then it will be a big reduction in pay. An example would be for training, let's say recurrent, all training becomes a pre-assignment for the actual value of the training not the trip you were pulled off that probably paid more. Also the preassignments can conflict with the trips you want to bid and now you get stuck with what ever is left, this system gives the company much more control of your schedule.

Too many other examples but PBS (AOS) is a HUGE!!!!!!! consession that management obviously wants to have.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Surely it would be the same system. It would make NO sense to buy a different piece of software.

I fear PBS WILL come weather we like it or not, it seems to be the industry standard.

The company now seems to want to cram it down our throat in a hurry just to get this deal done. They hope we won't look at it closely.

Do you like your current vacation options? With PBS if you have 7 days off then you get 7 DAYS. PERIOD!! Unlike DUHANGELO, I like being able to turn 7 days off into 17. With PBS you can't do it anymore

Have fun with that

 

[ReportCanoa]

Try only getting seven days of vay-cay per period. Where ya gonna go for a seven days? You'll enjoy 2-3 days trying to non-rev, and that leaves just a few more to "enjoy" your time in Costa Rica all the while worrying about checking travelnet and ID90 on TACA or Copa back to the US if you don't make the cut on your S3B or S4 pass.

And don't forget you'll finish a four day trip the night before you leave that will be delayed til 1am and you'll be so miserable you may just not want to go anywhere. And don't forget the 6:10am duty-in that PBS will assign you the day after your "vacation" is finished.

Of course it's a concessionary item. If it weren't, they wouldn't be pushing it. And don't think that ALPA will have any say or monitoring of what they do with that PBS computer. They'll give Wille the helm and tell him to steer the pilots right into the third level of Hades.

And we don't have to agree to PBS. There isn't a PBS mandate from the FAA. If you don't want it, then DON'T VOTE FOR IT.

PBS is a joke in your town...

Leprechaun out-

 

[ASACAPT]

Facts about ASA company proposal

"Originally Posted by AVoiceOfReason
Offer last week from ASA:

-Payraise for 50/ATR
-No paycut for 700
-$1.55 perdiem increasing to $1.60
-Skywest training pilot section
-1:2 duty rigs
-401k improvements
-PBS

ALPA said NO
This from a voting member of the MEC"

Here is a couple of things that you all have to keep in mind.

- After almost 4 years of negotiating the company finaly offered us current book on the CR7. A rate that Chitaqua will exlipse in 2007 when they also open up a negotiation for their new contract.

- The company had stated in a previous meeting that the rates on the CR2 and AT7 had to come up. And on the meeting in question, they had not changed their position from thair last official table position - + 1.5% DOS and and additional +1.6% DOS + 24 mos. These rates would at DOS be approximately 7-8% BELOW Chitaqua and at DOS +24 about 10% below Chitaqua, and then they would open up a new section 6 negotiation.

- The duty rig offer that they came up with, 1 for 2, is not as good as the rigs at SkyWest. They have 1 for 2 up to 12 hours and therafter a 1 for 1. In addition to this they tied it to the implementation of a PBS system.

- Why should we accept less perdiem than SkyWest?

- 401 (k) improvements did bring us closer to the SkyWest system, but still way below what ExpressJet and Comair has. In addition to this there were severak issues that were not adressed such as improved investment options and the establishment of an retirement committee.

All these things aside, the most disturbing thing was that the company did not want to contact the mediator in order to get back to the table. When the union asked about getting back to the table, their answer was that if the union is not going to signe the deal that they presented, they had no more room to move, hence there was no point in getting back to the table since we were still to far apart.

Another thing to consider is that if we were to get back to the table and were able to reduce the number of issues that we are apart on, there is an increased likelyhood that the NMB would infact release us into selfhelp. That might be the reaseon that ASA management does not want to get back to the NMB.

Also consider this. Just prior to the Comair strike in 2001, they were apart abot $60 million at DOS, we are only about $23 million apart. And the unions position in not their final position, which means that we are even closer than that.

The fact of the matter is that company's offer is essentially current book with the implementation of PBS and a sub standard duty rig. I would agree that this would have been a good first step that the two parties could restart the negotiations and come up with a deal that would have been good for both parties.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thank you for the useful information. Was there no movement on scope?

Very candidly, I can't vote for a contract without a Section 1.

Do you know if there is another CNC Conference call, or polling scheduled?

 

[ASACAPT]

From what I have heard they indicated that they were open to talk about fragmenation, but were not interested in a no furlough clause....

 

[ReportCanoa]

Do you know if there is another CNC Conference call, or polling scheduled?

I'm gonna push for some free booze. No Canadian blend either. Only Irish single malt.

 

[goahead]

Whatever ALPA should have had them write those provision down, suc_s on their part. And we need something to vote on I think everybody is getting sick of this he said she said sh_t.

 

[Firehoser]

<<Firehoser, the fuel question was specifically asked to BL and he said it was totally irrelevant, as it is a "flow-through cost" that is paid directly by Delta. It has nothing whatsoever to do with us making or losing money.
>>

You missed my point. The point is that $45 million in profit a quarter looks like a lot of money until you put into perspective against the total operational cost for that quarter. If no money were coming in (as in the condition that Delta suddenly cancels our contract when the renewal comes up - see United and ACA), $45 million in the bank probably wouldn't pay the employee salaries for one pay period. It looks like a lot, but against the big picture - it isn't. My intent was to take some easily defined numbers to get an idea of the quarterly operating costs at ASA to make the point. By the way thanks for a constructive, intelligent reply as opposed to........

<< Did you make up these numbers or are you smoking crack?>>

ATLCrashPad, yes actually I did "make up" these numbers. If you had taken the time to research the numbers, if you had any desire to enage in a constructive discussion, you would find that they are in fact, low. I intentionally low-balled the numbers. My intent in doing so was..............

never mind. I just remembered the old saying: "Don't argue with a fool - people might not see the difference between the two of you" Its foolish to argue with a closed mind, a brick wall, or a fungo bat. So rant on if you wish.

 

[Bizjet]

Is PBS that big a deal for management? How big a deal is it money wise? The more I learn about it, the more it sounds like a bad thing.

However, scope is so much more important. Why doesn't anyone seem to care about Secton 1? What good are pay rates if SkyWest will replace the pilots earning those rates?

Some airlines have PBS and the pilots like it. Most don't. Delta has good software but it is expensive. ASA doesn't think we are worth the expense. They can save a lot of money with PBS. Less crews and more company efficient schedules. Comair spent about 5 years on PBS and was allowed to choose the vendor. They don't like the results but management refuses to change vendors. The company should have to buy this if they want it. We must hold the line and refuse to enter any negotiations on PBS until we have a T/A. Then after the T/A is ratified a side Letter can be negotiated if we decide we want PBS. If you don't understand the software you can certainly screw yourself with PBS.

Contary to JoeMerchants incessant rants that we are not trying for one list with SkyWest and that we are going for substandard Scope protection he is as usual playing the I hate ALPA card because I can't run the show. He needs to STFU and go back into his hole until we need to know if he sees his shadow again on ground hog day. If SkyWest votes in a union there will be very little incentive for JA to keep the operations separate. We won't have to buy it.