Latest ASA offer

[Crash Pad]

2 to 1 duty rig only helps the nap crews... Toss a trip rig on top and I might be interested.

 

[ASA_Willy]

You missed my point. The point is that $45 million in profit a quarter looks like a lot of money until you put into perspective against the total operational cost for that quarter. .

Hosehead,

I really do think you are sincere and not just a management stooge. No seriously. I keep reading the numbers you are throwing around and it seems like you never took ECON 101. It's not about cash flow, it's about cost v. investment. You're talking about cash flow numbers, but investors, including JA, are interested in their return on investment.

If the profit looks good against the return, then you can throw expenses out the window. They don't give a crap about the money flowing through the place. That is basic business. It is all a question of whether the company produces a good return on the $$ invested. ASA has a good return on investment, which is why JA bought it to begin with. He doesn't care if the company's monthly cash flow is 3 bucks or 300 million bucks

 

[ASADriver]

By that logic, the MEC should have put the companies original opening offer out for a vote as well. Along with every concessionary offer that has been made. The company, in this latest "supposal", still has no premium pay, and Dh is still at 50%. A 1:2 duty rig wont do a thing for us without a trip rig, and min days. Maybe you are willing to do your job for less money, but the majority of our pilots aren't, and the MEC knows that. Plus, it is NOT an offer unless the NMB is involved in it.

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

 

[buscap]

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Hey Driver,

I personally asked a CNC member a direct question about this so called offer. He said it is flat out false. And for what it's worth, the nature of the beast is this: The CNC negotiates with the company on our behalf. They are the agent we have hired for this purpose.

Feel free to make your views known to them, but please know that getting play by play updates serves no purpose. That has the negative effect of making us subject to company propaganda and manipulation.

Talk with the CNC members and be sure to participate in Wilson Polling. That's how it works.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

Cuz it don't work that way, Ese.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Have you actually spoken to them?? Probably not.

It's easier to anonymously take potshots.

 

[ASADriver]

Hey Driver,

I personally asked a CNC member a direct question about this so called offer. He said it is flat out false. And for what it's worth, the nature of the beast is this: The CNC negotiates with the company on our behalf. They are the agent we have hired for this purpose.

Feel free to make your views known to them, but please know that getting play by play updates serves no purpose. That has the negative effect of making us subject to company propaganda and manipulation.

Talk with the CNC members and be sure to participate in Wilson Polling. That's how it works.

I did talk with a CNC member yesterday in the C lounge. He said that the offer was made and we aren't interested because it is tied to Pref. Bidding. Sounds like they don't have their stories straight. If the CNC member you talked to said what you say they did, then one of them is lying.

 

[ASADriver]

Have you actually spoken to them?? Probably not.

It's easier to anonymously take potshots.

I did talk to one of them yesterday in the C lounge. He said the offer was made, but it was tied to pref. bidding and the union isn't interested in pref. bidding. That came right out of the mouth of a negotiator. Sounds like they are saying different things.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The real force that is hanging over all of us is the part of the contract between Delta and our Airlines that mandates crew cost.

With out consulting any of us, our Airlines have agreed to be lowest, or second lowest at some point in time.

Has anyone seen a copy of that contract? Could it just be an urban myth? Crew costs are only a small part of the puzzle. Attractive finance or lease rates on the aircraft themselves probably have far more impact. Efficient scheduling and utilization are a big factor. If managment really negotiated a clause to be second lowest they should have got some concurrence from your MEC. Since SkyWest Airlines and ASA are separate entities in theory how can they both be expected to have second lowest operating costs? I've heard people at SKYW make the same claim about the need to be second lowest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Let me tell ya why, Biscuit. Because that's EXACTLY why Comair took two concessionary offers. Their MEC is weak and they panicked that the pilots would reise hell if they didn't put it to a vote and they would get recalled. So they put a B.S. proposal up for vote and sh_t if it didn't pass! The company seized on the opportunity and scared the bejesus out of the pilots while offering the SJS guys a nice new ride.

I'm glad our MEC is strong enough and smart enough to resist the temptation you management shills keep crying for!

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

Has anyone seen a copy of that contract? Could it just be an urban myth? Crew costs are only a small part of the puzzle. Attractive finance or lease rates on the aircraft themselves probably have far more impact. Efficient scheduling and utilization are a big factor. If managment really negotiated a clause to be second lowest they should have got some concurrence from your MEC. Since SkyWest Airlines and ASA are separate entities in theory how can they both be expected to have second lowest operating costs? I've heard people at SKYW make the same claim about the need to be second lowest.

Exactly.

Why does Delta care about the breakdown of cost? It's just the total they need to put on the check that matters.

The whole "second lowest crew cost" garbage is made up by management. In fact, Delta could mandate "second highest crew cost" and demand all other costs be reduced to give a lower final cost.....to guarantee the pilots are happy. That would not only be feasible, but make better business sense.

The truth is, JA, BL think we are SO STUPID that we believe that Delta really cares exactly how SKYW arrives at a cost for Delta to pay.

They don't

 

[John Pennekamp]

Speaking to the credibility of "Voice of Reason", the originator of this post... "Voice of Reason" happens to be Joe Merchant's OLDER GIRLFRIEND.

Do you now understand her motivation to undermine the MEC and convince you to settle the contract based on a phantom proposal and lies?

It is true that they made a proposal, but it disappeared when asked to put it on paper. LJ's lies and misinformation are always real. She is bitter that she can't control negotiations this time and transform the contract into a earmark for her and her special interest cronies.

 

[ASADriver]

Let me tell ya why, Biscuit. Because that's EXACTLY why Comair took two concessionary offers. Their MEC is weak and they panicked that the pilots would reise hell if they didn't put it to a vote and they would get recalled. So they put a B.S. proposal up for vote and sh_t if it didn't pass! The company seized on the opportunity and scared the bejesus out of the pilots while offering the SJS guys a nice new ride.

I'm glad our MEC is strong enough and smart enough to resist the temptation you management shills keep crying for!

So your afraid of what the majority want? Doesn't majority rule? If the majority of pilots want this deal, then who are MEC to prevent them from voting on it? It is our right to decide our future. I guess you think ALPA people are smarter than the membership.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So your afraid of what the majority want? Doesn't majority rule? If the majority of pilots want this deal, then who are MEC to prevent them from voting on it? It is our right to decide our future. I guess you think ALPA people are smarter than the membership.

Yes, majority does rule. You and your views are the minority. The MAJORITY of the pilots do tell the MEC what they want. You're bitter because you're in the minority and also a "management pilot", and can't get what you want. Now get off flightinfo and get back to work, Biscuit, or I'm calling your boss. You're on the clock right now. Glad you GO types spend your work day on Flightinfo.

 

[ASADriver]

Yes, majority does rule. You and your views are the minority. The MAJORITY of the pilots do tell the MEC what they want. You're bitter because you're in the minority and also a "management pilot", and can't get what you want. Now get off flightinfo and get back to work, Biscuit, or I'm calling your boss. You're on the clock right now. Glad you GO types spend your work day on Flightinfo.

But that isn't what you said above. You said the CMR MEC gave into the majority and that was a mistake. You also implied that might happen here if the membership were given the choice to vote. The majority spoke at CMR and you don't like it. Your afraid the majority here might vote yes to this offer.

 

[John Pennekamp]

But that isn't what you said above. You said the CMR MEC gave into the majority and that was a mistake. You also implied that might happen here if the membership were given the choice to vote. The majority spoke at CMR and you don't like it. Your afraid the majority here might vote yes to this offer.

Biscuit, this 'ain't comair, and our pilots are a lot stronger. My comment above is that I don't want them to be sucseptible to you and your management buddies propaganda. That's what killed comair. The pilots never called for a vote, the MEC offered it, and management hijacked it.

ATTN: CRJ DEPARTMENT
Tell Dudley to get off the computer and get back to work... unless management is paying him to come on here and spin...

 

[socony_air]

Hey Genius,
The "majority" just voted two weeks ago to strike by an overwhelming margin. If you think this Non-offer offer - written in pencil so shills like yourself can get out the word that the MEC said no thanks - is good enough to change the minds of a majority of our pilots, well I've got this bridge... In the current environment that is ASA no pilot is going to be fooled by a ghost offer and a hand shake. We all know that the devil is in the details.
Why PBS now? Why didn't the company pursue this years ago? Although CT & the gang would like the pilots here to forget what life has been like here for the last 5+ years & just hastily agree to whatever makes him look good right now - It's not going to happen.
Get back to the table. Get Serious. Get it in writing. Until then, it's all just your word on the internet. No way that is enough to sway this pilot group. The ink isn't even dry on the strike ballots - the majority Has spoken. You're just not in it.

 

[wms]

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

It's not an offer if was not made in a mediated negotiation. If they're serious they should invite us back to the table. But they're not, it's just propaganda for them to use. I hope the CNC learned a lesson and the next time the co. wants to talk they need to schedule a mediated meeting.

They're trying to stall so SKW can prepare for a strike. We need to strike soon, the sooner the better. If we give in then they'll go to the SKW pilots and tell them they need to be cheaper than us. Then they'll come back to us and say we need to be cheaper than them again, and so on and so on.

And for all the GO types who cruise these boards, if we give in they'll come after you next. Look at any airline that got concessions from organized labor, they've always followed up by going after everyone else. Right now mgmt is making you think you're part of the team and it's "us against them". But in the end they'll cut your pay also unless some one finally says enough is enough.

I thought JA was going to be stand-up guy to work for, but he's turned out to be a Lorenzo mini-me. Shame on him and the puppets in the ATL GO who blindly follow him around.

 

[atrdriver]

So your afraid of what the majority want? Doesn't majority rule? If the majority of pilots want this deal, then who are MEC to prevent them from voting on it? It is our right to decide our future. I guess you think ALPA people are smarter than the membership.

Hey driver, a majority is 50.1%. A few weeks ago we passed a strike vote by 92%. I would say that is quite a majority. A majority that is not interested in non offers by management that are tied to things that polling has clearly shown that the pilot group does not want. Our MEC and CNC knows what the majority of the pilots want because they have paid for Wilson Polling data for the past 4 years.

 

[CFIT]

Exactly.

Why does Delta care about the breakdown of cost? It's just the total they need to put on the check that matters.

The whole "second lowest crew cost" garbage is made up by management. In fact, Delta could mandate "second highest crew cost" and demand all other costs be reduced to give a lower final cost.....to guarantee the pilots are happy. That would not only be feasible, but make better business sense.

The truth is, JA, BL think we are SO STUPID that we believe that Delta really cares exactly how SKYW arrives at a cost for Delta to pay.

They don't

Wrong-
Every cost element is broken down, including crew costs. The overall cost is required to remain within parameters as is individual costs. The second lowest cost requirement is required by 2008' and is a approved provision in the bancruptcy hearings and is available on-line throught the freedom of information act.

It may not sit well with you but the company doesn't need to nor should have to get approval from the pilot group to secure business opportunities. If it is not compatible with your contract then amend, change, or strike until it is.