Latest ASA offer

[wms]

"Originally Posted by AVoiceOfReason
Offer last week from ASA:

-Payraise for 50/ATR
-No paycut for 700
-$1.55 perdiem increasing to $1.60
-Skywest training pilot section
-1:2 duty rigs
-401k improvements
-PBS

ALPA said NO
This from a voting member of the MEC"

Here is a couple of things that you all have to keep in mind.

- After almost 4 years of negotiating the company finaly offered us current book on the CR7. A rate that Chitaqua will exlipse in 2007 when they also open up a negotiation for their new contract.

- The company had stated in a previous meeting that the rates on the CR2 and AT7 had to come up. And on the meeting in question, they had not changed their position from thair last official table position - + 1.5% DOS and and additional +1.6% DOS + 24 mos. These rates would at DOS be approximately 7-8% BELOW Chitaqua and at DOS +24 about 10% below Chitaqua, and then they would open up a new section 6 negotiation.

- The duty rig offer that they came up with, 1 for 2, is not as good as the rigs at SkyWest. They have 1 for 2 up to 12 hours and therafter a 1 for 1. In addition to this they tied it to the implementation of a PBS system.

- Why should we accept less perdiem than SkyWest?

- 401 (k) improvements did bring us closer to the SkyWest system, but still way below what ExpressJet and Comair has. In addition to this there were severak issues that were not adressed such as improved investment options and the establishment of an retirement committee.

All these things aside, the most disturbing thing was that the company did not want to contact the mediator in order to get back to the table. When the union asked about getting back to the table, their answer was that if the union is not going to signe the deal that they presented, they had no more room to move, hence there was no point in getting back to the table since we were still to far apart.

Another thing to consider is that if we were to get back to the table and were able to reduce the number of issues that we are apart on, there is an increased likelyhood that the NMB would infact release us into selfhelp. That might be the reaseon that ASA management does not want to get back to the NMB.

Also consider this. Just prior to the Comair strike in 2001, they were apart abot $60 million at DOS, we are only about $23 million apart. And the unions position in not their final position, which means that we are even closer than that.

The fact of the matter is that company's offer is essentially current book with the implementation of PBS and a sub standard duty rig. I would agree that this would have been a good first step that the two parties could restart the negotiations and come up with a deal that would have been good for both parties.

Anything less than SKW 50-seat pay and work rules(tweaked to our needs) with no less than our current rates on the 700...plus retro. Anything else is a no vote. PBS in a side letter later.

We were red-headed step children when we were owned by DAL, and our current ASA mgmt along with our new owners want to keep us the same way. We are not a "B-scale" for SKW!!! And the only reason DAL 757 (if he is DAL) and other DAL pilots care about our contract is because a strike by us could ruin it for them. They don't care about ASA, only their own future. I'd rather see ASA go down and take whoever with us, than to see ASA mgmt take advantage of us again.

 

[atrdriver]

Why all the secrecy ASACAPT? A member of the negotiating committee verified this offer in the crew lounge yesterday and said that we aren't interested in PBS. Why wasn't this offer published to the pilots? We have a right to know and some of us are tired of not being kept in the loop. I'm not sure I want PBS, but I am willing to take this deal. Let us vote on something.

Nice to know you are willing to take a deal that you know nothing about. I've got a boat, want to pay me $10,000 for it?

 

[ASADriver]

Nice to know you are willing to take a deal that you know nothing about. I've got a boat, want to pay me $10,000 for it?

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

 

[atrdriver]

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

By that logic, the MEC should have put the companies original opening offer out for a vote as well. Along with every concessionary offer that has been made. The company, in this latest "supposal", still has no premium pay, and Dh is still at 50%. A 1:2 duty rig wont do a thing for us without a trip rig, and min days. Maybe you are willing to do your job for less money, but the majority of our pilots aren't, and the MEC knows that. Plus, it is NOT an offer unless the NMB is involved in it.

 

[ASA_Willy]

They'll give Wille the helm and tell him to steer the pilots right into the third level of Hades.

Man, Willy loves the power!

Coopervane, where'd you find that hot mama avatar??????

 

[Crash Pad]

2 to 1 duty rig only helps the nap crews... Toss a trip rig on top and I might be interested.

 

[ASA_Willy]

You missed my point. The point is that $45 million in profit a quarter looks like a lot of money until you put into perspective against the total operational cost for that quarter. .

Hosehead,

I really do think you are sincere and not just a management stooge. No seriously. I keep reading the numbers you are throwing around and it seems like you never took ECON 101. It's not about cash flow, it's about cost v. investment. You're talking about cash flow numbers, but investors, including JA, are interested in their return on investment.

If the profit looks good against the return, then you can throw expenses out the window. They don't give a crap about the money flowing through the place. That is basic business. It is all a question of whether the company produces a good return on the $$ invested. ASA has a good return on investment, which is why JA bought it to begin with. He doesn't care if the company's monthly cash flow is 3 bucks or 300 million bucks

 

[ASADriver]

By that logic, the MEC should have put the companies original opening offer out for a vote as well. Along with every concessionary offer that has been made. The company, in this latest "supposal", still has no premium pay, and Dh is still at 50%. A 1:2 duty rig wont do a thing for us without a trip rig, and min days. Maybe you are willing to do your job for less money, but the majority of our pilots aren't, and the MEC knows that. Plus, it is NOT an offer unless the NMB is involved in it.

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

 

[buscap]

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Hey Driver,

I personally asked a CNC member a direct question about this so called offer. He said it is flat out false. And for what it's worth, the nature of the beast is this: The CNC negotiates with the company on our behalf. They are the agent we have hired for this purpose.

Feel free to make your views known to them, but please know that getting play by play updates serves no purpose. That has the negative effect of making us subject to company propaganda and manipulation.

Talk with the CNC members and be sure to participate in Wilson Polling. That's how it works.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then how about showing it to the membership and letting us vote on it? It has been verified that the offer was made. It's simple, put it down on paper and send it out for a vote.

Cuz it don't work that way, Ese.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Have you actually spoken to them?? Probably not.

It's easier to anonymously take potshots.

 

[ASADriver]

Hey Driver,

I personally asked a CNC member a direct question about this so called offer. He said it is flat out false. And for what it's worth, the nature of the beast is this: The CNC negotiates with the company on our behalf. They are the agent we have hired for this purpose.

Feel free to make your views known to them, but please know that getting play by play updates serves no purpose. That has the negative effect of making us subject to company propaganda and manipulation.

Talk with the CNC members and be sure to participate in Wilson Polling. That's how it works.

I did talk with a CNC member yesterday in the C lounge. He said that the offer was made and we aren't interested because it is tied to Pref. Bidding. Sounds like they don't have their stories straight. If the CNC member you talked to said what you say they did, then one of them is lying.

 

[ASADriver]

Have you actually spoken to them?? Probably not.

It's easier to anonymously take potshots.

I did talk to one of them yesterday in the C lounge. He said the offer was made, but it was tied to pref. bidding and the union isn't interested in pref. bidding. That came right out of the mouth of a negotiator. Sounds like they are saying different things.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The real force that is hanging over all of us is the part of the contract between Delta and our Airlines that mandates crew cost.

With out consulting any of us, our Airlines have agreed to be lowest, or second lowest at some point in time.

Has anyone seen a copy of that contract? Could it just be an urban myth? Crew costs are only a small part of the puzzle. Attractive finance or lease rates on the aircraft themselves probably have far more impact. Efficient scheduling and utilization are a big factor. If managment really negotiated a clause to be second lowest they should have got some concurrence from your MEC. Since SkyWest Airlines and ASA are separate entities in theory how can they both be expected to have second lowest operating costs? I've heard people at SKYW make the same claim about the need to be second lowest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So your saying it wouldn't pass? I think some of us would like to vote on a reasonable offer, and this sounds like one. Let us vote, if it doesn't pass, that will send management a message, if it does pass, we can move on. Besides, why can't the union at least tell the membership what is contained in these offers? Do they think we aren't smart enough to make an informed decision? I get the feeling that our union leadership thinks they are smarter than the regular members. That doesn't sit well with some of us.

Let me tell ya why, Biscuit. Because that's EXACTLY why Comair took two concessionary offers. Their MEC is weak and they panicked that the pilots would reise hell if they didn't put it to a vote and they would get recalled. So they put a B.S. proposal up for vote and sh_t if it didn't pass! The company seized on the opportunity and scared the bejesus out of the pilots while offering the SJS guys a nice new ride.

I'm glad our MEC is strong enough and smart enough to resist the temptation you management shills keep crying for!