ALPA endorses Clinton

[PCL_128]

I'm not a "millionair", but if the Bush tax cuts are rolled back, I will pay more in taxes......Are you advocating that my taxes should go up?

No one is advocating that your taxes go up. Only the top bracket will be rolled back to the pre-'03 levels. Your tax bracket will remain untouched.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Education, health, and retirement are not "rights" and should not be issues of federal government...... I don't want people who are responsible for the TSA to take care of my retirement or health care.......Do you?

No...but when education, healthcare and retirement are not protected by free market capitalist then the reprecussions become rights violations...

You are simply amazing....

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Tax "the Church"!!!!!!

 

[Crossky]

Obama does favor universal health care, but he doesn't favor a socialized version of it. Neither does the Hilldabeast. The programs that they are proposing continue the private health insurance business, but they make it available to everyone. The government does not take over health care under their proposals. That's called a single-payer system, and that would be socialized medicine. That's not on the table at all. They are, because they are 100% government programs. Universal health care as proposed by Obama does not fit the same mold.

Thanks for the info.

While the subject is on the table, what data is out there that shows the equivalent tax rate for wealthy americans (say the top 20%) AFTER the deductions and tax credits they can take advantage of because of investments etc. that the vast majority of other americans can't? Wealthy citizens also can afford the expert financial and tax advice from consultants and advisors. I'd be interested in finding out.

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks for the info.


While the subject is on the table, what data is out there that shows the equivalent tax rate for wealthy americans (say the top 20%) AFTER the deductions and tax credits they can take advantage of because of investments etc. that the vast majority of other americans can't? Wealthy citizens also can afford the expert financial and tax advice from consultants and advisors. I'd be interested in finding out.

I'm sure some think tank out there has the data, but I've never seen it. Warren Buffet claims to only pay about 15%.

 

[G-force]

Socialistic Healthcare !!!

I can see I'm debating with a real mental giant here. [/sarcasm] Universal health care is not a socialist program. A single-payer system is a socialist program, but no one is proposing that. The programs offered by both Obama and Hitlery are still private insurance programs. The government is not taking over health care. You should actually read something for once instead of listening to Michael Savage and Neal Boortz all the time.

What about the congress weighing in on this,dude,so basically ,you are saying,whatever Hillary or Obama wants and congress will just lay down for them!!
Neither of these two charlotans has won the election yet,no votes have been counted!!!

What both of these two bums are proposing is RATIONED-HEALTHCARE.Thats where your Dr.is reduced to a prescription writer/pill dispenser,that has to get permission from some bureaucrat in Washinton,D.C. before he/she can treat you!!!
So,dude,my advice to you is never get sick,or never have an accident that requires hospitalization!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Dude? I'm debating with someone that frequently uses "dude" when engaged in debate? This is the best the far-right has to offer? Sad.

But anyway, you're still wrong. Nothing in these plans allows for any bureaucrat in Washington to have control over your treatments. The relationship between Doctor and patient is actually improved, because insurance companies won't be able to stop you from getting treatment that your Doctor feels you need. You need to do some more research, "dude."

 

[G-force]

Knows-it-all

Dude? I'm debating with someone that frequently uses "dude" when engaged in debate? This is the best the far-right has to offer? Sad.

But anyway, you're still wrong. Nothing in these plans allows for any bureaucrat in Washington to have control over your treatments. The relationship between Doctor and patient is actually improved, because insurance companies won't be able to stop you from getting treatment that your Doctor feels you need. You need to do some more research, "dude."

Ok,Mr.PCL 128 dude,you seem to know everything about govmint,solve social security,that is how does one keep it solvent???Now we're talking real socialism!!!
(entitlements)!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

Gee, it's a good thing you edited that post for punctuation. Wouldn't want to distract everyone from the horrendous spelling and grammar.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok,Mr.PCL 128 dude,you seem to know everything about govmint,solve social security,that is how does one keep it solvent???Now we're talking real socialism!!!
(entitlements)!!!!

It seems he knows a little of what he is talking about. You might not agree... but its obvious he has taken the time to get...some info.....

Just because you have adopted popular opinion doesn't mean its right.... it could be... but it could not be too....

 

[G-force]

Not Answering Question!!!!

Gee, it's a good thing you edited that post for punctuation. Wouldn't want to distract everyone from the horrendous spelling and grammar.

Ok PCL 128 dude,if you can get off the Kool-aid long enough,the question is still there,How to make the Social Security Trust Fund SOLVENT in these times??

 

[PCL_128]

Ok PCL 128 dude,if you can get off the Kool-aid long enough,the question is still there,How to make the Social Security Trust Fund SOLVENT in these times??

Well, "dude," we can start by doing what Obama suggests: eliminating the cap on the payroll tax so everyone has to pay their fair share. Right now, anyone making over $97.5k isn't paying tax on the amount above that. He also suggest requiring employers to provide a retirement fund in the form of a 401(k) or IRA. That would get Americans on the way to providing for their own retirement rather than depending on the government.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well, "dude," we can start by doing what Obama suggests: eliminating the cap on the payroll tax so everyone has to pay their fair share. Right now, anyone making over $97.5k isn't paying tax on the amount above that.

In other words raise taxes.....I thought you said Obama wasn't going to raise my taxes......

He also suggest requiring employers to provide a retirement fund in the form of a 401(k) or IRA. That would get Americans on the way to providing for their own retirement rather than depending on the government.

Gee where have I heard something similar......Oh yeah....Bush tried to go more towards private retirement plans.....The Obama's and Hillary's in Congress killed that.....

 

[PCL_128]

In other words raise taxes.....I thought you said Obama wasn't going to raise my taxes......

Obama isn't going to raise your income tax rates. This is the SS tax, commonly called the "payroll tax." Upper income earners have been getting a free ride on the payroll tax for years. While middle-class Americans pay payroll taxes on all of their income, those making over $97.5 are basically getting a tax discount. Ridiculous. I doubt you're making much more than $97.5k per year as an ATR Captain anyway.

Gee where have I heard something similar......Oh yeah....Bush tried to go more towards private retirement plans.....The Obama's and Hillary's in Congress killed that.....

This isn't the same thing. This plan requires employers to provide retirement accounts, rather than having the government set up accounts for everyone. Seems even more conservative to me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

No...but when education, healthcare and retirement are not protected by free market capitalist then the reprecussions become rights violations...

1. There isn't a Constitutional right to be protected from your own bad decisions.....We are contributing to the problem when we teach people to rely on govt. to solve problems that they created.....

2. You are assuming that public "education, healthcare and retirement" will protect people.....A simple look at public education, social security, and medicare indicate that when the federal government takes something over, it is far from perfect....

You are simply amazing....

Sorry Rez.....some of us don't look to the government to solve our problems....Many times the government simply makes things worse....at a higher cost....

Free market capitalism isn't perfect.....but it is often better than the government alternative.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Obama isn't going to raise your income tax rates. This is the SS tax, commonly called the "payroll tax." Upper income earners have been getting a free ride on the payroll tax for years. While middle-class Americans pay payroll taxes on all of their income, those making over $97.5 are basically getting a tax discount. Ridiculous.

More liberal fuzzy math.....Everyone pays the same....We all pay it on the first 97,500 of income....and nobody is paying it on income above that.....In addition, those of us who make more have to pay a higher percentage of income in taxes.....We already pay more because we make more.....Then we are penalized with a higher percentage.....

Taxes are taxes....regardless of whether you want to call them "income taxes" or "payroll taxes"....They are both "income taxes".....

I doubt you're making much more than $97.5k per year as an ATR Captain anyway.

I will make about $112,000 this year, so it will be a tax increase for me......for a program that isn't actuarily sound......Forgive me if I'm not happy about paying more for another failed govt. program....

This isn't the same thing. This plan requires employers to provide retirement accounts, rather than having the government set up accounts for everyone. Seems even more conservative to me.

If you place the burden on employers, then that money will come from somewhere else in the benefit package.....A better solution is more individual accounts combined with tax deductions and tax free growth......

 

[G-force]

Raising Of Taxes

Well, "dude," we can start by doing what Obama suggests: eliminating the cap on the payroll tax so everyone has to pay their fair share. Right now, anyone making over $97.5k isn't paying tax on the amount above that. He also suggest requiring employers to provide a retirement fund in the form of a 401(k) or IRA. That would get Americans on the way to providing for their own retirement rather than depending on the government.

Ok dude,let me get this straight,YOU say raise TAXES on people and Obama's suggestions will be enacted into LAW because Obama says so??
It seems like you figure on the Congress just to lay down for the guy!!!Let's wait and count the VOTES,your boy,Sen no-experience Obama hasn't won yet!!
It would seem to alot of people that you're living in a dream-world!!

 

[PCL_128]

More liberal fuzzy math.....Everyone pays the same.

Now that's fuzzy math. Examples:

Middle-class pilot making $65k per year pays $4,030 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program.

Middle-class pilot making $97,500 per year pays $6,045 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program. This is the absolute max that can be contributed under the current scheme.

Now, upper-class executive making $400k per year pays the same $6,045, or just 1.5% of his income into the SS program. He makes $302,500 more than the previous pilot (a 310% difference), but pays a fraction of the percentage that the pilot pays into the SS program. This is a direct tax on the middle class and poor, while the rich practically get a free ride. Unconscionable.


Under Obama's plan, everybody pays the same 6.2% of their income, whether they make $50k or $500k. Now that's fair.

If you place the burden on employers, then that money will come from somewhere else in the benefit package

For many Americans, there is no benefits package!!! That's exactly why we have to have these ridiculous programs like SS and Medicaid. Employers don't treat their employees like human beings, so the government has to pick up the tab to make sure there's a safety net. Otherwise you end up with a huge burden on society from homeless elderly and sick lower-class workers. If companies like WalMart had to provide these programs for even the lowest-paid employees, maybe the government could get out of the retirement savings business.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok dude,let me get this straight,YOU say raise TAXES on people and Obama's suggestions will be enacted into LAW because Obama says so??

It seems like you figure on the Congress just to lay down for the guy!!!

Hate to break it to you, but there's going to be a significant Dem majority in both the House and Senate next year. A Dem President will get little resistance in getting these things done.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You don't get it PCL....If you make more, you already pay more....Most taxes are paid by those who make the most money....That is a fact.....

If ALPA operated with your logic, then those who make more within ALPA should pay a higher percentage of dues.....A senior Delta or United captain would pay 3.5% in dues, while a regional FO would pay 1% in dues.....would that be fair?

 

[PCL_128]

You don't get it PCL....If you make more, you already pay more....Most taxes are paid by those who make the most money....That is a fact.....

Not for social security, you don't. You actually pay less and less a percentage of your income as you make more and more above $97.5k. The system is backwards.

If ALPA operated with your logic, then those who make more within ALPA should pay a higher percentage of dues.....A senior Delta or United captain would pay 3.5% in dues, while a regional FO would pay 1% in dues.....would that be fair?

Not analogous, because there aren't a plethora of deductions to be taken to reduce dues payments as there are with tax payments. Nobody actually pays their tax bracket, because everyone takes deductions. ALPA's system is analogous to a flat tax, which I would support. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage with no deductions. That's not the way the tax system is set up, though, Joe. Under the current tax system, someone can sit in a higher tax bracket but pay a lower percentage of income because of the various deductions and sheltering schemes.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Your information PCL simply isn't factual.....The top earners already pay most of the taxes....That is a fact....

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23023


"By 2006, the share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners was 70.8 percent, while the bottom 50 percent paid -0.3 percent -- The President’s bipartisan Tax Reform Panel stating “taxpayers in the lowest two quintiles [of earners] actually receive more in refunds from the federal government than they pay in income taxes and, as a result, have negative tax income burdens.”

We have a spending problem and an over reliance on government in this country......We don't have a problem of not paying enough in taxes.......

 

[PCL_128]

My information was 100% factual. You just want to talk about a completely different issue. What you posted has nothing to do with what we've been discussing. Typical far-right red herrings.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......

They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......

 

[PCL_128]

You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......


They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......

We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.

Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......

What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......

The fact is, many of the lower income get money from the tax system thru the Earned Income Tax Credit......The tax rebate that was just pushed thru doesn't give me any of my tax money back, but some people who don't pay any tax will get a rebate....How is that "fair"?

 

[PCL_128]

Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......

The bottom third pays hardly anything because they're living in poverty. Many of them work at companies like WalMart that refuse to pay them a decent salary that would allow them to pay taxes in the first place. The dollar amount that the rich pays isn't the issue. The issue is that they pay a lower percentage of their income than the middle class. That's not right. They should pay at least as much as a percentage of income.

What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......

Someone that works at WalMart isn't working hard? Someone that's in middle management isn't working hard? Someone that cleans toilets at hotels isn't working hard? I'd wager that you've never done anything close to the hard work that those in the lower class do. The fact that they don't make as much money doesn't mean that they aren't working hard. You want to put the rich on a pedestal and pretend that they work so much harder than the rest of us, but that's absurd. Many of them fell ass-backwards into money. Many of them make money by screwing over the "little people." They don't deserve the exalted status that you've given them. They are no different than the rest of us. They shouldn't get to pay less than their fair share.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....

Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to...... The only exceptions are those with mental problems that prevent them.....

The fact remains....those at the bottom already don't pay taxes.....You simply want to punish those who worked hard......That is the Democratic motto..."Punish those who succeed"........

 

[PCL_128]

How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....

A lot fewer than you think.

Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to.

I used to believe that too........then I woke up.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A lot fewer than you think.I used to believe that too........then I woke up.

Many of the folks I fly with who complain about money have a cup of Starbucks in their hand, and when they get the USAToday, they go right for the Purple section and the Orange section.....They don't touch the Green section......

If you talk to them, they know more about who Brittany Spears than the company 401k and the tax code.....They are more interested in American Idol than they are in Hannety and Colms.....

Life is full of choices....some make better choices than others......We shouldn't penalize those who make good choices.....