ALPA endorses Clinton

[atrdriver]

hmmm... like Dubai Ports and Bush's guest worker program?

Let's be pragmatic here.... ALPA seeks out politicans that are pro pilot.... sure more are Dem.. but that isn't an ALPA requirement... or even hope...

Does ALPA have to support ones personal choice for President that includes the social issues?

Can ALPA focus on pilot issues and only pilot issues? Do you want ALPA to focus on social issues? (I don't).

If Hilary gets elected and ALPA is able to push through pro pilot legislation that enhances your career... is that ok? Will you reject your career enhancements based on morals and principles? Can you support ALPA on pro pilot legislation and fight Hilary on other issues...

Trying to be black and white in a very grey area will not work...

And again, for the third time, I ask you what have the Democrats done to help the piloting profession in the past 20 or 30 years? You seem to think that electing a Democrat will be the saving of this profession, I don't. I have every confidence that they pander to whoever they think will vote for them. Once the election is complete, it's business as usual.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I don't like the idea that an organization, such as a union, influencing it's members on who to vote for. The organization cannot place a vote only the people can and they should make that decision without any undue pressure.
my .02

Your union has an OBLIGATION to inform you about issues related to your career! That fundamental function is not subject to debate.

Laws that impact your career, and the lawmakers who pass/enforce them are clearly within the scope of germane topics for a labor union.

ALPA informed it's membership about the positions taken by the candidates on issues impacting our careers.

It's up to you...the member...to prioritize the data ALPA gives you on the candidates against your own personal concerns.

If you place your personal concerns above your career, then you lose to the right to gripe about ALPA's effectiveness in protecting or enhancing your career, as it relates to any actions taken by candidates ALPA warned you about.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yeah, I'm sure that APA asked Clinton to issue a PEB to stop their strike.

They did. Clinton's counsel, Bruce Lindsay, contacted the APA President just prior to the strike deadline. He was told the APA would not object to a PEB.

Lindsay described the conversation to me personally during the end-game of our strike (which took place during Clinton's administration). Lindsay settled the strike by forcing the final issues down our managment's throat. It ended our B-Scale. I was there, in the room.

Whatever. And you still have not told me what any Democrat has done for pilots in the last 20 years or so.

You're serious?

Get a grip!

If you had any clue about the number of lame ideas your Republican buddies tried to force on us, you'd slink away in shame.

A couple of the "great ideas" thwarted by Dems:

1. CRAF flying by foreign airlines. Bush's Defense Appropriations request two years in a row treid to outsource the transportation of our troops to foreign airlines.

2. McCain-Lott amendment to the RLA. Would've requred "baseball-style" arbitration to settle airline Labor impasses.

If you're unwilling to pay attention...don't ask stupid questions.

 

[atrdriver]

McCain is a Democrat, he just doesn't wear that label. And I believe (May be wrong) that the CRAF thing was thwarted by a Republican controlled congress.

And there is a very large difference between "not objecting to" and asking for. Clinton wouldn't have let AA strike. It was Clinton appointed judges that ruled so heavily against the AA pilots for the sickout. What about age 65? Passed by a Democrat controlled congress.

If I really believed that a Democrat would do something to materially help air line pilots, I MIGHT be persuaded to vote that way. But I firmly believe that what Democrats are most worried about is Democrats. They will do or say anything to get their power back.

 

[zonker]

They did. Clinton's counsel, Bruce Lindsay, contacted the APA President just prior to the strike deadline. He was told the APA would not object to a PEB.

Lindsay described the conversation to me personally during the end-game of our strike (which took place during Clinton's administration). Lindsay settled the strike by forcing the final issues down our managment's throat. It ended our B-Scale. I was there, in the room.



You're serious?

Get a grip!

If you had any clue about the number of lame ideas your Republican buddies tried to force on us, you'd slink away in shame.

A couple of the "great ideas" thwarted by Dems:

1. CRAF flying by foreign airlines. Bush's Defense Appropriations request two years in a row treid to outsource the transportation of our troops to foreign airlines.

2. McCain-Lott amendment to the RLA. Would've requred "baseball-style" arbitration to settle airline Labor impasses.

If you're unwilling to pay attention...don't ask stupid questions.

Great post!

:beer:

 

[Occam's Razor]

McCain is a Democrat, he just doesn't wear that label. And I believe (May be wrong) that the CRAF thing was thwarted by a Republican controlled congress.

Ok, let's add "delusional" to "clueless". McCain is a Labor-hating Republican. (Hint: The "R" thingy after his name is a clue)

The CRAF proposal was thwarted by ALPA sounding the alarm, and rallying several members of Congress to fight it. It was proposed by a guy named "Bush" who is a Republican. (His address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.) You'll recall his administration also tried to sell seaports to his arab buddies.

And there is a very large difference between "not objecting to" and asking for. Clinton wouldn't have let AA strike.

Now you're talking out of your butt. The APA was contacted by Lindsay (as we at NWA ALPA were) prior to the strike deadline, to ask what action, if any, we would like from the President.

The APA said they were cool with a PEB. They got one.

The NWA MEC said we wanted a strike. We got one.

Got it? You're entitled to your own opinion...but not your own facts.

It was Clinton appointed judges that ruled so heavily against the AA pilots for the sickout.

'Kay, maybe it's sugar intake. Have you been putting too much sugar on your Frosted Sugar Bombs every morning?

Here's the bio of Judge Joe Kendall, the US District Court Judge who ruled against the APA pilots:

Name: Elton "Joe" Kendall.
Birth: January 12, 1954, Dallas, Texas.
Appointed By: President George Bush, on recommendation of Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX).
Education: Southern Methodist University, B.B.A. 1977; Baylor University School of Law, J.D. 1980.

Here's the link to his official bio. Put down the crack pipe and read it. Then quit posting wild conjecture.

If I really believed that a Democrat would do something to materially help air line pilots, I MIGHT be persuaded to vote that way.

No you wouldn't. You're clueless.

Your post is Exhibit "A".

 

[PCL_128]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

 

[MJ42]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

I may be wrong but my presumtion is you have conservative beliefs on these bold issues?

I understand what you are saying, I think we are all trying to change the direction of this profession. It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically(as well as other ways), yet I can't seem to vote based off improving career goals and expectations. I believe too strongly in the bold print I quoted and vote based on who aligns the most with my beliefs.

I'm not a big union fan but still support ALPA and want pilots to become more unified so we can all fight to improve this profession. It just bothers me the way I feel Rez trys to ram his beliefs down our throats. Occam has the knowledge and facts to back his statements but does it in a tactful way (until someone gets him going). BTW Occam I think that "McCain is a dem" statement by ATR was just a joke, most repubs think of him as a dem because of several liberal beliefs and associations(i.e. Kennedy).

Like Occum said, it's ALPA's job to inform us on political issues that will effect us as pilots. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like their position on candidates or (some) issues.

 

[PCL_128]

I may be wrong but my presumtion is you have conservative beliefs on these bold issues?

That would be an understatement.

It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically

In the end, that's really the only way to change it, and to protect it. ALPA's founder Captain Behnke understood that, and I've come to understand it also.

 

[atrdriver]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

I don't doubt that the profession would be better off with a Democrat in the white house. But I don't think the country would be. And as I said before, I feel a lot stronger about being an American than I do about being a pilot. And I firmly believe that what is good for America is bad for Democrats, and vice versa.

If I was incorrect about the judge that ruled against the APA pilots I apologize. Yet all that happened under Clinton. As did NAFTA, and a lot of other things that are not exactly labor friendly. But that's OK, I will not sway you any more than you will sway me.