ALPA endorses Clinton

[atrdriver]

Not to mention Rez, when was the last time that ALPA endorsed a Republican? ALPA spends all it's time and energy trying to get a Democrat elected, then if the Democrat loses we seem surprised that the Republican isn't falling all over himself to help out cause. Or, if the Democrat wins, we seem surprised that they don't help us out too much either, simply because they can't be trusted.

 

[atrdriver]

Money buys access and access guarantees influence. it is the way the game has been played for decades.. long before you and I. You canrefuse to play, pack up your marbles and go home, but the game will still be played and you will be effected...

If that's true, then why did Clinton not allow the American pilots to strike? Why did Clinton appointed judges slam pilots who were trying to do what was right for them? Access doesn't guarantee a thing when it comes to Washington. And all giving them money guarantees is that you will have less money when you are done.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Stop trying to lay a guilt trip and force your beliefs on us. YES! I have morals and my own conscience to follow. I can pay my bills just fine with or without flying!

The only belief I am trying to push is the belief in the Air Line Pilot profession and the fair and reasonable compensation of it. Oh and safety too. Do you share those beliefs?

Depends on who you ask. I.E. Wire taps to catch radical muslims=good.

You mean radical terrorist. Otherwise we could use wire taps for radical christians too.....right?

I've been furloughed and kept my house, but I don't count on an airline being stable therefore I plan accordingly!

Nice.. plan.... I guess... Plan for the worst...hope for the best? Hope isn't a gameplan.

Guys like you will allow those that control the distibution of wealth to furlough us from time to time.. always keeping us one step forward....two steps back... that is sustaining... not propsering...

So what, my life has much more to it then worrying about fixing ALPA. I do my job well then go home to enjoy my life .

Guys with this attitude are the worst. What do you think enables you such a luxury....? To do your job and go home and enjoy life?

Strength lies in chacter not in a union that is misguided from the top down.

Why not put character in the union?

You preach unity but in reality pilots look after themselves, however, your effort to unify pilots is noble.

Agreed... let's change that...

....If you vote with your conscience and stand by your morals and princples how can you do both? No way I'll vote for a Dem. There's more to life then flying!

I am not saying vote for Hilary..or the Dems, although that would yield a proper NMB... just understand why ALPA leans towards Dems and don't reject ALPA for doing so....

If you vote with your conscience and stand by your morals and princples how can you do both?

by being issue oreientated... not party orienented.

No way I'll vote for a Dem. There's more to life then flying!

Then, respectfully, find a profession that allows you to support yourself, the profession and your consciensce...

Oh, yeah... what sqwkvfr said above, goes for me too!

Do you want to send your kid to the college of choice or the local community colloege?

"Sorry you can't go to State son, but we fought [insert social issue here] real good for 20 years"


Do you want to pay 40% taxes on 200,000 (120,000 usable)
or 30% taxes on 100,000 (70,000 usable)?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not to mention Rez, when was the last time that ALPA endorsed a Republican?

During the Pres. campaign, ALPA sends a questionaire to ALL candidates... coincidently only a select few respond... are you surprised that NOT ONE GOP candidate replies.

ALPA spends all it's time and energy trying to get a Democrat elected, then if the Democrat loses we seem surprised that the Republican isn't falling all over himself to help out cause.

You got it backwards.. ALPA invites all candidates to particapte in pilot issues... only the Dems choose to engage. Is that ALPA's fault? Then then chickens vote for Frank Purdue while wondering why ALPA suxs...

Or, if the Democrat wins, we seem surprised that they don't help us out too much either, simply because they can't be trusted.

Oh...so GOP can be trusted and Dems can't?

If that's true, then why did Clinton not allow the American pilots to strike? Why did Clinton appointed judges slam pilots who were trying to do what was right for them?

Clinton did what he was asked.... I'll get some info for you.... more later...

Access doesn't guarantee a thing when it comes to Washington. And all giving them money guarantees is that you will have less money when you are done.

Sounds like rhetoric to me... can you specify..

 

[atrdriver]

Yeah, I'm sure that APA asked Clinton to issue a PEB to stop their strike. And I'm sure that they asked him to make sure his judge ruled against them for millions. I didn't say the GOP could be trusted, but I certainly trust them more than I trust a Democrat. WHO CARES if they return some questionaire? That just means they are making promises that they aren't going to keep. Whatever. And you still have not told me what any Democrat has done for pilots in the last 20 years or so.

 

[atrdriver]

During the Pres. campaign, ALPA sends a questionaire to ALL candidates... coincidently only a select few respond... are you surprised that NOT ONE GOP candidate replies.

And do you really think that the candidates themselves take the time to answer those things? I would be willing to bet that they never see them, that a staffer fills out the ALPA questionaire, along with the thousands of others they they get from every special interest group.

 

[MJ42]

The only belief I am trying to push is the belief in the Air Line Pilot profession and the fair and reasonable compensation of it. Oh and safety too. Do you share those beliefs?
Absoultely, and I work hard to do my part.



You mean radical terrorist. Otherwise we could use wire taps for radical christians too.....right? Correct, but I think most would agree radical muslims are a bigger threat to the masses then some nut who wants to blow up an abortion clinic. I'm adopted and therefore against abortion but can't understand radical behavior from any group trying to FORCE their beliefs on me!



Nice.. plan.... I guess... Plan for the worst...hope for the best? Hope isn't a gameplan. No, it isn't. But being prepared is!

Guys like you will allow those that control the distibution of wealth to furlough us from time to time.. always keeping us one step forward....two steps back... that is sustaining... not propsering...You're kidding right? Just because I'm smart and plan ahead in a very cyclical industry I allow "those that control the distribution of wealth to furlough us" . Sorry man, I fought to get to where I'm at am won't let those people take that away without a fight.




Guys with this attitude are the worst. What do you think enables you such a luxury....? To do your job and go home and enjoy life?
Sorry for enjoying my life, I'll try to be a little more miserable. I'm allowed said luxury because I've been working my a$$ off for 17 years in this industy. Watched PFT guys get hired in the mid 90's while I fought for a CFI job. Flying 135 night freight. My ANG career. Being furloughed after 9/11. Being a dedicated professioinal. And yes Rez, even supporting ALPA...No Rez, guys who think they're alway right and force their opinion on others(like you) are the worst!




Why not put character in the union? I've tried and will continue to try. But I've seen so much dissent recently. From age 65, to US Airways merger, future mergers, past BK's there is a lot of bitterness.




Agreed... let's change that...



I am not saying vote for Hilary..or the Dems, although that would yield a proper NMB... just understand why ALPA leans towards Dems and don't reject ALPA for doing so....That, to me, says vote for her. Who's rejecting ALPA, like I've said, I'm doing my part.







by being issue oreientated... not party orienented. There are other important issues in life besides ALPA issues




Then, respectfully, find a profession that allows you to support yourself, the profession and your consciensce...I have the FREEDOM to choose my profession, I love having flying career. I can't help the way the industry is run. I do what I can to change what I feel is wrong. Respectfully, keep your opinions out of my choice of professions




Do you want to send your kid to the college of choice or the local community colloege?

"Sorry you can't go to State son, but we fought [insert social issue here] real good for 20 years"


Do you want to pay 40% taxes on 200,000 (120,000 usable)
or 30% taxes on 100,000 (70,000 usable)? Don't know what you mean by these statements, my children will go to the college of their choice because of my financial plan for there future, whether I earn my money by flying or some other career. And no I don't want to pay that much in taxes, lower taxes=good for all.

Maybe your efforts would work better if you did not come off like you are forcing your opinions on those who differ.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And do you really think that the candidates themselves take the time to answer those things? I would be willing to bet that they never see them, that a staffer fills out the ALPA questionaire, along with the thousands of others they they get from every special interest group.

So whats your point?

 

[atrdriver]

So whats your point?

What do you think it is? These candidates care about you, me, and every other airline pilot only as long as they think they can get our vote. Once they are in office it's the same old crap. So lets vote in somebody who is concerned about the country and it's security.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What do you think it is? These candidates care about you, me, and every other airline pilot only as long as they think they can get our vote. Once they are in office it's the same old crap. So lets vote in somebody who is concerned about the country and it's security.

hmmm... like Dubai Ports and Bush's guest worker program?

Let's be pragmatic here.... ALPA seeks out politicans that are pro pilot.... sure more are Dem.. but that isn't an ALPA requirement... or even hope...

Does ALPA have to support ones personal choice for President that includes the social issues?

Can ALPA focus on pilot issues and only pilot issues? Do you want ALPA to focus on social issues? (I don't).

If Hilary gets elected and ALPA is able to push through pro pilot legislation that enhances your career... is that ok? Will you reject your career enhancements based on morals and principles? Can you support ALPA on pro pilot legislation and fight Hilary on other issues...

Trying to be black and white in a very grey area will not work...

 

[atrdriver]

hmmm... like Dubai Ports and Bush's guest worker program?

Let's be pragmatic here.... ALPA seeks out politicans that are pro pilot.... sure more are Dem.. but that isn't an ALPA requirement... or even hope...

Does ALPA have to support ones personal choice for President that includes the social issues?

Can ALPA focus on pilot issues and only pilot issues? Do you want ALPA to focus on social issues? (I don't).

If Hilary gets elected and ALPA is able to push through pro pilot legislation that enhances your career... is that ok? Will you reject your career enhancements based on morals and principles? Can you support ALPA on pro pilot legislation and fight Hilary on other issues...

Trying to be black and white in a very grey area will not work...

And again, for the third time, I ask you what have the Democrats done to help the piloting profession in the past 20 or 30 years? You seem to think that electing a Democrat will be the saving of this profession, I don't. I have every confidence that they pander to whoever they think will vote for them. Once the election is complete, it's business as usual.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I don't like the idea that an organization, such as a union, influencing it's members on who to vote for. The organization cannot place a vote only the people can and they should make that decision without any undue pressure.
my .02

Your union has an OBLIGATION to inform you about issues related to your career! That fundamental function is not subject to debate.

Laws that impact your career, and the lawmakers who pass/enforce them are clearly within the scope of germane topics for a labor union.

ALPA informed it's membership about the positions taken by the candidates on issues impacting our careers.

It's up to you...the member...to prioritize the data ALPA gives you on the candidates against your own personal concerns.

If you place your personal concerns above your career, then you lose to the right to gripe about ALPA's effectiveness in protecting or enhancing your career, as it relates to any actions taken by candidates ALPA warned you about.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Yeah, I'm sure that APA asked Clinton to issue a PEB to stop their strike.

They did. Clinton's counsel, Bruce Lindsay, contacted the APA President just prior to the strike deadline. He was told the APA would not object to a PEB.

Lindsay described the conversation to me personally during the end-game of our strike (which took place during Clinton's administration). Lindsay settled the strike by forcing the final issues down our managment's throat. It ended our B-Scale. I was there, in the room.

Whatever. And you still have not told me what any Democrat has done for pilots in the last 20 years or so.

You're serious?

Get a grip!

If you had any clue about the number of lame ideas your Republican buddies tried to force on us, you'd slink away in shame.

A couple of the "great ideas" thwarted by Dems:

1. CRAF flying by foreign airlines. Bush's Defense Appropriations request two years in a row treid to outsource the transportation of our troops to foreign airlines.

2. McCain-Lott amendment to the RLA. Would've requred "baseball-style" arbitration to settle airline Labor impasses.

If you're unwilling to pay attention...don't ask stupid questions.

 

[atrdriver]

McCain is a Democrat, he just doesn't wear that label. And I believe (May be wrong) that the CRAF thing was thwarted by a Republican controlled congress.

And there is a very large difference between "not objecting to" and asking for. Clinton wouldn't have let AA strike. It was Clinton appointed judges that ruled so heavily against the AA pilots for the sickout. What about age 65? Passed by a Democrat controlled congress.

If I really believed that a Democrat would do something to materially help air line pilots, I MIGHT be persuaded to vote that way. But I firmly believe that what Democrats are most worried about is Democrats. They will do or say anything to get their power back.

 

[zonker]

They did. Clinton's counsel, Bruce Lindsay, contacted the APA President just prior to the strike deadline. He was told the APA would not object to a PEB.

Lindsay described the conversation to me personally during the end-game of our strike (which took place during Clinton's administration). Lindsay settled the strike by forcing the final issues down our managment's throat. It ended our B-Scale. I was there, in the room.



You're serious?

Get a grip!

If you had any clue about the number of lame ideas your Republican buddies tried to force on us, you'd slink away in shame.

A couple of the "great ideas" thwarted by Dems:

1. CRAF flying by foreign airlines. Bush's Defense Appropriations request two years in a row treid to outsource the transportation of our troops to foreign airlines.

2. McCain-Lott amendment to the RLA. Would've requred "baseball-style" arbitration to settle airline Labor impasses.

If you're unwilling to pay attention...don't ask stupid questions.

Great post!

:beer:

 

[Occam's Razor]

McCain is a Democrat, he just doesn't wear that label. And I believe (May be wrong) that the CRAF thing was thwarted by a Republican controlled congress.

Ok, let's add "delusional" to "clueless". McCain is a Labor-hating Republican. (Hint: The "R" thingy after his name is a clue)

The CRAF proposal was thwarted by ALPA sounding the alarm, and rallying several members of Congress to fight it. It was proposed by a guy named "Bush" who is a Republican. (His address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.) You'll recall his administration also tried to sell seaports to his arab buddies.

And there is a very large difference between "not objecting to" and asking for. Clinton wouldn't have let AA strike.

Now you're talking out of your butt. The APA was contacted by Lindsay (as we at NWA ALPA were) prior to the strike deadline, to ask what action, if any, we would like from the President.

The APA said they were cool with a PEB. They got one.

The NWA MEC said we wanted a strike. We got one.

Got it? You're entitled to your own opinion...but not your own facts.

It was Clinton appointed judges that ruled so heavily against the AA pilots for the sickout.

'Kay, maybe it's sugar intake. Have you been putting too much sugar on your Frosted Sugar Bombs every morning?

Here's the bio of Judge Joe Kendall, the US District Court Judge who ruled against the APA pilots:

Name: Elton "Joe" Kendall.
Birth: January 12, 1954, Dallas, Texas.
Appointed By: President George Bush, on recommendation of Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX).
Education: Southern Methodist University, B.B.A. 1977; Baylor University School of Law, J.D. 1980.

Here's the link to his official bio. Put down the crack pipe and read it. Then quit posting wild conjecture.

If I really believed that a Democrat would do something to materially help air line pilots, I MIGHT be persuaded to vote that way.

No you wouldn't. You're clueless.

Your post is Exhibit "A".

 

[PCL_128]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

 

[MJ42]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

I may be wrong but my presumtion is you have conservative beliefs on these bold issues?

I understand what you are saying, I think we are all trying to change the direction of this profession. It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically(as well as other ways), yet I can't seem to vote based off improving career goals and expectations. I believe too strongly in the bold print I quoted and vote based on who aligns the most with my beliefs.

I'm not a big union fan but still support ALPA and want pilots to become more unified so we can all fight to improve this profession. It just bothers me the way I feel Rez trys to ram his beliefs down our throats. Occam has the knowledge and facts to back his statements but does it in a tactful way (until someone gets him going). BTW Occam I think that "McCain is a dem" statement by ATR was just a joke, most repubs think of him as a dem because of several liberal beliefs and associations(i.e. Kennedy).

Like Occum said, it's ALPA's job to inform us on political issues that will effect us as pilots. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like their position on candidates or (some) issues.

 

[PCL_128]

I may be wrong but my presumtion is you have conservative beliefs on these bold issues?

That would be an understatement.

It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically

In the end, that's really the only way to change it, and to protect it. ALPA's founder Captain Behnke understood that, and I've come to understand it also.

 

[atrdriver]

Always good to have Occam around for a dose of common sense and reality. atrdriver, I understand where you're coming from. I used to say the exact same things. After spending enough time in the Herndon and downtown DC ALPA offices, talking with the lobbyists and legislative affairs staffers, my opinions changed. I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc..., but I'm not going to stick my head back in the sand and pretend that who I elect won't affect my career. The fact is, the landscape of this profession will look much different in 8 years depending on who we elect. This profession will be much better off with Obama than with Romney. That's just reality.

I don't doubt that the profession would be better off with a Democrat in the white house. But I don't think the country would be. And as I said before, I feel a lot stronger about being an American than I do about being a pilot. And I firmly believe that what is good for America is bad for Democrats, and vice versa.

If I was incorrect about the judge that ruled against the APA pilots I apologize. Yet all that happened under Clinton. As did NAFTA, and a lot of other things that are not exactly labor friendly. But that's OK, I will not sway you any more than you will sway me.