ALPA endorses Clinton

[JoeMerchant]

Obama isn't going to raise your income tax rates. This is the SS tax, commonly called the "payroll tax." Upper income earners have been getting a free ride on the payroll tax for years. While middle-class Americans pay payroll taxes on all of their income, those making over $97.5 are basically getting a tax discount. Ridiculous.

More liberal fuzzy math.....Everyone pays the same....We all pay it on the first 97,500 of income....and nobody is paying it on income above that.....In addition, those of us who make more have to pay a higher percentage of income in taxes.....We already pay more because we make more.....Then we are penalized with a higher percentage.....

Taxes are taxes....regardless of whether you want to call them "income taxes" or "payroll taxes"....They are both "income taxes".....

I doubt you're making much more than $97.5k per year as an ATR Captain anyway.

I will make about $112,000 this year, so it will be a tax increase for me......for a program that isn't actuarily sound......Forgive me if I'm not happy about paying more for another failed govt. program....

This isn't the same thing. This plan requires employers to provide retirement accounts, rather than having the government set up accounts for everyone. Seems even more conservative to me.

If you place the burden on employers, then that money will come from somewhere else in the benefit package.....A better solution is more individual accounts combined with tax deductions and tax free growth......

 

[G-force]

Raising Of Taxes

Well, "dude," we can start by doing what Obama suggests: eliminating the cap on the payroll tax so everyone has to pay their fair share. Right now, anyone making over $97.5k isn't paying tax on the amount above that. He also suggest requiring employers to provide a retirement fund in the form of a 401(k) or IRA. That would get Americans on the way to providing for their own retirement rather than depending on the government.

Ok dude,let me get this straight,YOU say raise TAXES on people and Obama's suggestions will be enacted into LAW because Obama says so??
It seems like you figure on the Congress just to lay down for the guy!!!Let's wait and count the VOTES,your boy,Sen no-experience Obama hasn't won yet!!
It would seem to alot of people that you're living in a dream-world!!

 

[PCL_128]

More liberal fuzzy math.....Everyone pays the same.

Now that's fuzzy math. Examples:

Middle-class pilot making $65k per year pays $4,030 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program.

Middle-class pilot making $97,500 per year pays $6,045 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program. This is the absolute max that can be contributed under the current scheme.

Now, upper-class executive making $400k per year pays the same $6,045, or just 1.5% of his income into the SS program. He makes $302,500 more than the previous pilot (a 310% difference), but pays a fraction of the percentage that the pilot pays into the SS program. This is a direct tax on the middle class and poor, while the rich practically get a free ride. Unconscionable.


Under Obama's plan, everybody pays the same 6.2% of their income, whether they make $50k or $500k. Now that's fair.

If you place the burden on employers, then that money will come from somewhere else in the benefit package

For many Americans, there is no benefits package!!! That's exactly why we have to have these ridiculous programs like SS and Medicaid. Employers don't treat their employees like human beings, so the government has to pick up the tab to make sure there's a safety net. Otherwise you end up with a huge burden on society from homeless elderly and sick lower-class workers. If companies like WalMart had to provide these programs for even the lowest-paid employees, maybe the government could get out of the retirement savings business.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok dude,let me get this straight,YOU say raise TAXES on people and Obama's suggestions will be enacted into LAW because Obama says so??

It seems like you figure on the Congress just to lay down for the guy!!!

Hate to break it to you, but there's going to be a significant Dem majority in both the House and Senate next year. A Dem President will get little resistance in getting these things done.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You don't get it PCL....If you make more, you already pay more....Most taxes are paid by those who make the most money....That is a fact.....

If ALPA operated with your logic, then those who make more within ALPA should pay a higher percentage of dues.....A senior Delta or United captain would pay 3.5% in dues, while a regional FO would pay 1% in dues.....would that be fair?

 

[PCL_128]

You don't get it PCL....If you make more, you already pay more....Most taxes are paid by those who make the most money....That is a fact.....

Not for social security, you don't. You actually pay less and less a percentage of your income as you make more and more above $97.5k. The system is backwards.

If ALPA operated with your logic, then those who make more within ALPA should pay a higher percentage of dues.....A senior Delta or United captain would pay 3.5% in dues, while a regional FO would pay 1% in dues.....would that be fair?

Not analogous, because there aren't a plethora of deductions to be taken to reduce dues payments as there are with tax payments. Nobody actually pays their tax bracket, because everyone takes deductions. ALPA's system is analogous to a flat tax, which I would support. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage with no deductions. That's not the way the tax system is set up, though, Joe. Under the current tax system, someone can sit in a higher tax bracket but pay a lower percentage of income because of the various deductions and sheltering schemes.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Your information PCL simply isn't factual.....The top earners already pay most of the taxes....That is a fact....

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23023


"By 2006, the share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners was 70.8 percent, while the bottom 50 percent paid -0.3 percent -- The President’s bipartisan Tax Reform Panel stating “taxpayers in the lowest two quintiles [of earners] actually receive more in refunds from the federal government than they pay in income taxes and, as a result, have negative tax income burdens.”

We have a spending problem and an over reliance on government in this country......We don't have a problem of not paying enough in taxes.......

 

[PCL_128]

My information was 100% factual. You just want to talk about a completely different issue. What you posted has nothing to do with what we've been discussing. Typical far-right red herrings.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......

They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......

 

[PCL_128]

You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......


They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......

We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.

Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......

What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......

The fact is, many of the lower income get money from the tax system thru the Earned Income Tax Credit......The tax rebate that was just pushed thru doesn't give me any of my tax money back, but some people who don't pay any tax will get a rebate....How is that "fair"?

 

[PCL_128]

Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......

The bottom third pays hardly anything because they're living in poverty. Many of them work at companies like WalMart that refuse to pay them a decent salary that would allow them to pay taxes in the first place. The dollar amount that the rich pays isn't the issue. The issue is that they pay a lower percentage of their income than the middle class. That's not right. They should pay at least as much as a percentage of income.

What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......

Someone that works at WalMart isn't working hard? Someone that's in middle management isn't working hard? Someone that cleans toilets at hotels isn't working hard? I'd wager that you've never done anything close to the hard work that those in the lower class do. The fact that they don't make as much money doesn't mean that they aren't working hard. You want to put the rich on a pedestal and pretend that they work so much harder than the rest of us, but that's absurd. Many of them fell ass-backwards into money. Many of them make money by screwing over the "little people." They don't deserve the exalted status that you've given them. They are no different than the rest of us. They shouldn't get to pay less than their fair share.

 

[JoeMerchant]

How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....

Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to...... The only exceptions are those with mental problems that prevent them.....

The fact remains....those at the bottom already don't pay taxes.....You simply want to punish those who worked hard......That is the Democratic motto..."Punish those who succeed"........

 

[PCL_128]

How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....

A lot fewer than you think.

Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to.

I used to believe that too........then I woke up.

 

[JoeMerchant]

A lot fewer than you think.I used to believe that too........then I woke up.

Many of the folks I fly with who complain about money have a cup of Starbucks in their hand, and when they get the USAToday, they go right for the Purple section and the Orange section.....They don't touch the Green section......

If you talk to them, they know more about who Brittany Spears than the company 401k and the tax code.....They are more interested in American Idol than they are in Hannety and Colms.....

Life is full of choices....some make better choices than others......We shouldn't penalize those who make good choices.....