ALPA endorses Clinton

[pylut]

Well,... ALPA sent a questionaire to all Preisdential candidates.. only four responded. If labor is insignificant..especially a small 60,000 member union..why would they reply.. of those four it was Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Kucinich...

Well then, shouldn't you berate them for lack of response and punish those who responded by calling them the minority and acting 180 degrees against their wishes? That's how alpo handled the age 65 survey.

Ya ya, I know they were making sure they got to insert all that great input into the new bill. What exactly was that again?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Thank you, Senator Craig!

Give my best to "Duke" and Tom Delay.

I don't want to be in a stall with Sen. Craig or a car with Teddy Kennedy......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc

I understand what you are saying, I think we are all trying to change the direction of this profession. It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically(as well as other ways),

Politically? Of course... is there any other way? If there was, what way? and would you want it that way?

Everything is politics.... everything... if you don't like it... fine. Just support those who are willing to politic for you...

yet I can't seem to vote based off improving career goals and expectations. I believe too strongly in the bold print I quoted and vote based on who aligns the most with my beliefs.

The bold print? Does abortion pay your mortgage?
Does gun control put your kids thru college? Pay the car loan? Immigration? Sure..if you are not careful a foreigner will be flying your jet and taking your job.

Do we have a problem with American jobs being replaced by foreigners in this country? Do you think the labor of flying jets is viewed differently than say... a taxi? Bus driver? construction worker? Labor is labor is labor.... it is a cost to be controlled!!

I'm not a big union fan but still support ALPA and want pilots to become more unified so we can all fight to improve this profession.

Good. So when ALPA says get involved, Back the PAC, etc.. and be effective we..do!

It just bothers me the way I feel Rez trys to ram his beliefs down our throats.

hmmm..is it perhaps that I am pushing you outside your comfort zone? It is easy to simply say "yeah, its black and white, what I believe it is righteous and true..." It is another to say.. "you know, on pilot issues I might have to support Hilary or Obama. I don't have to support her on gun control, gays and abortion (I don't), but I support Hilary on pilot issues!"

That is tough to say for most Air Line Pilots. can you say it?

Occam has the knowledge and facts to back his statements but does it in a tactful way (until someone gets him going). BTW Occam I think that "McCain is a dem" statement by ATR was just a joke, most repubs think of him as a dem because of several liberal beliefs and associations(i.e. Kennedy).

Occam has been around longer than I and has more Profession merit badges than I. I can't speak for him, but I am tired of pilots whining about our poor profession and refusing to get educated, informed, mobilized, effective and result orientated....

Pilots are like overweight people.. they want to to be thin but when diet and excercise is suggested they balk, turn on the Tivo and settle in with a 2 liter cola and bag of doritoes.... Which goes to show the people that control wealth in this country have got us right were they want us.. and we are content...

Like Occum said, it's ALPA's job to inform us on political issues that will effect us as pilots. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like their position on candidates or (some) issues.

Agreed. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you. ALPA only cares about pilot issues. But wait and see... Pilots will still get pissed....

Finally...and again... the goal... ISSUE Orientated politics... don't choose sides. Choose your house. If you want to work on gun control, gays, abortion, national defense, etc... you have to go to sleep somewhere each night. And you have to pay for it!! Don't take that for granted....

 

[MJ42]

I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc

Good, we have something in common!




Politically? Of course... is there any other way? If there was, what way? and would you want it that way? Yes, see below.

Everything is politics.... everything... if you don't like it... fine. Just support those who are willing to politic for you...You're right, everything is political. Everybody has an agenda. Mine is to (when I start at NWA) help change ALPA from the inside, bottom up. Help improve everything ALPA was supposed to stand for yet somewhere over the years lost their vision. I just choose not to vote based on my airline career only. Everything considered, I vote based off the big picture and my convictions.





The bold print? Does abortion pay your mortgage?
Does gun control put your kids thru college? Pay the car loan? Immigration? Sure..if you are not careful a foreigner will be flying your jet and taking your job. See below.

Do we have a problem with American jobs being replaced by foreigners in this country? Do you think the labor of flying jets is viewed differently than say... a taxi? Bus driver? construction worker? Labor is labor is labor.... it is a cost to be controlled!!Correct, and I'll fight until the end so this won't happen. But if it does I'll make sure I can provide for my family.



Good. So when ALPA says get involved, Back the PAC, etc.. and be effective we..do!Correct!




hmmm..is it perhaps that I am pushing you outside your comfort zone? It is easy to simply say "yeah, its black and white, what I believe it is righteous and true..." It is another to say.. "you know, on pilot issues I might have to support Hilary or Obama. I don't have to support her on gun control, gays and abortion (I don't), but I support Hilary on pilot issues!"You can't push me outside my comfort zone, sorry, I'm not a push over. I'll support OUR next President no matter what! I disagree with most everything Hillary says and does, but if she does something to help pilots then I can give her credit. That doesn't mean I'll vote for her(or most likely Obama) because she MAY be ok for our profession.

That is tough to say for most Air Line Pilots. can you say it? See above.




Occam has been around longer than I and has more Profession merit badges than I. I can't speak for him, but I am tired of pilots whining about our poor profession and refusing to get educated, informed, mobilized, effective and result orientated....That's why I respect his opinion, but I can still think for myself while taking into account his experience.

Pilots are like overweight people.. they want to to be thin but when diet and excercise is suggested they balk, turn on the Tivo and settle in with a 2 liter cola and bag of doritoes.... Which goes to show the people that control wealth in this country have got us right were they want us.. and we are content...Glad I decided to stay in great shape after my college football days, and no I wasn't a kicker...42 is for my idol Ronnie Lott!(oh yeah, Pat Tillman also was 42 at ASU...what a hero!) I'm not content about the wealthy, but I'm not upset either. This is America, we all have the opportunities, just some people have had luck(such as coming from money) or determination in order to become successful.



Agreed. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you. ALPA only cares about pilot issues. But wait and see... Pilots will still get pissed....Always, it's our nature.

Finally...and again... the goal... ISSUE Orientated politics... don't choose sides. Choose your house. If you want to work on gun control, gays, abortion, national defense, etc... you have to go to sleep somewhere each night. And you have to pay for it!! Don't take that for granted....

I don't take it for granted, we just disagree about the way to achieve the same end result.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't take it for granted, we just disagree about the way to achieve the same end result.

ok.... sounds good...

riddle me this.... why not support your profession first... the medium that pays your house note...

Your replies are agreeable but really placate having your cake and eating it too....
So what comes first? Social issues or your mortgage? What is more important? Paying your house note each month like you agreed to do or abortion, gays and guns?

Most people do one thing every four years: vote for the President. They brush their hands clean and say... "I am done for the next four years.... I love this fire and forget democracy!!"

you've got to discuss the HOW. How are you going to adress both professional and social issues...

 

[MJ42]

ok.... sounds good...Agreed.

riddle me this.... why not support your profession first... the medium that pays your house note...What you don't seem to understand is...just because I don't vote democratic DOES NOT mean I don't support my profession or ALPA.

Your replies are agreeable but really placate having your cake and eating it too....In a perfect world, yes. But since this isn't a perfect world why can't I still strive to have it all?
So what comes first? Social issues or your mortgage? What is more important? Paying your house note each month like you agreed to do or abortion, gays and guns?I have a balance in my life, I don't throw my values under the bus so maybe a new President can help our profession.

Most people do one thing every four years: vote for the President. They brush their hands clean and say... "I am done for the next four years.... I love this fire and forget democracy!!"See below.

you've got to discuss the HOW. How are you going to adress both professional and social issues...

What people don't realize is the most important aspect of voting for a President is who they will appoint for Judges. The next Pres. will probably get to appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. This is much more important then any agenda driven policy making. And yes, if the sh!t hits the fan in our industry these judges will probably decide our fate. Although a liberal judge would be more labor friendly it does not mean they will rule in our favor. In the mean time while we wait to see if our industry tanks, I think liberal judges would do more damage to our country. To me, the risk is not worth the reward, we should depend on ourselves to control our own fate by changing ALPA for the better...getting back to what it was supposed to be, that's our goal!

 

[PCL_128]

You're correct in your belief that judges are very important. But then you toss aside the importance of having pro-labor judges. Look at the decisions handed down against airline labor over the past 10-15 years. Virtually every single one of the judges was appointed by Reagan or one of the Bushs. These people hold your very livelihood and the ability to take care of your family in their hands. I hope and pray that we can get Roe v Wade overturned at some point, but you have to think about your livelihood. All the social issues in the world don't mean jack if you can't put food on the table for your kids.

 

[MJ42]

You're correct in your belief that judges are very important. But then you toss aside the importance of having pro-labor judges. Look at the decisions handed down against airline labor over the past 10-15 years. Virtually every single one of the judges was appointed by Reagan or one of the Bushs. These people hold your very livelihood and the ability to take care of your family in their hands. I hope and pray that we can get Roe v Wade overturned at some point, but you have to think about your livelihood. All the social issues in the world don't mean jack if you can't put food on the table for your kids.

I think you and Rez miss my point. It seems the only thing you two are focused on is our profession(understandingly, because it pays our bills). I want a balanced approach, sticking to my beliefs while helping to turn ALPA around. ALPA has too many internal problems, in my opinion, to be concerned about first. I feel we need to change ALPA first so our union can get back to doing its job, helping us. It's also much more then social issues, it's about economy, tax(cuts) defense among others. I live within my means, which is key in such a cyclical and volatile industry. I fight to better our industry but am prepared to support my family if it tanks(like when I was furloughed after 9/11). I agree with your goals, just not the way to achieve them.

 

[PCL_128]

I think you and Rez miss my point. It seems the only thing you two are focused on is our profession(understandingly, because it pays our bills).

No, I'm merely subscribing to a method that Rez has talked about many times: "vote your job, lobby your hobby." In other words, I'll vote for Obama because he's best for my profession, but I'll also send money to causes I support such as the National Right to Life Committee and the NRA. That way, I can put someone in office that supports my livelihood, but also fund lobbyists that will fight to make sure that the social issues are taken care of.

 

[MJ42]

No, I'm merely subscribing to a method that Rez has talked about many times: "vote your job, lobby your hobby." In other words, I'll vote for Obama because he's best for my profession, but I'll also send money to causes I support such as the National Right to Life Committee and the NRA. That way, I can put someone in office that supports my livelihood, but also fund lobbyists that will fight to make sure that the social issues are taken care of.

Fair enough, I just don't subscribe to that theory because the economy, taxes and national defense are not hobbies to me.

Glad to see there are pilots who fight to better our industry, no matter what side we're on!

 

[PCL_128]

They aren't hobbies to me either, it's just a slogan. Rez can tell you, I've criticized the use of the term "hobby" also. The point is that you don't have to pick one over the other. You can "have your cake and eat it too." Washington is a town run by money, so contributing to a cause such as the NRA really does make a difference, even if you've voted for someone that isn't an NRA member. But I respect your choices. It took me a long time to come to this way of thinking. This will be the first election that I vote for a Dem for any national office.

 

[G-force]

Hillary-voting For Her????????????

We need to vote for Clinton... She is the only one that can help the airline industry!!!!!

Hey dude,where have you been for the last 16 years???
Hillary is a SOCIALIST!!!! All she cares about is HERSELF & POWER!!!! And you think SHE is going to help the airllines and aviation????
Get out of the DREAM-WORLD!!,dude,time to get in the REAL-WORLD!!!!!!

 

[Crossky]

Hillary is a SOCIALIST!!!! All she cares about is HERSELF & POWER!!!! And you think SHE is going to help the airllines and aviation????

Love all the ???'s and !!!!'s dude!!!!

Hillary is a corporate Clinton Democrat like her husband, but she will still be better than a Republican for labor issues. Hillary is not a Socialist. In contrast CAL not giving you and your family health insurance for the first six months is F'ed up; Airtran's family insurance for $500/month is F'ed up.

McCain is 'not a conservative', but he has a better pro-life record than Mass Gov. Rommney (ran as Pro-Choice). McCain 'isn't conservative', but has said many times that we'll be in the middle east for a long time. McCain 'isn't pro-business', but supported an immigrant program (like our current MBA President has).

Count me in as proud to be a 'Bad Democrat'. There are more and more of us switching sides who are conservative on social issues but registered Democrats.

 

[Superpilot92]

Anyone else see the special on Hillary and her anti-union partys when she did her time at Walmart on the board?

below is the video, not very impressive for a Union to support this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CebYLdPbiZA

 

[JoeMerchant]

Anyone else see the special on Hillary and her anti-union partys when she did her time at Walmart on the board?

below is the video, not very impressive for a Union to support this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CebYLdPbiZA

....now you did it..... you ruined the unionistas Republican bashing....Now they may have to answer for their own mistakes.....

....How many Democrats shop at Walmart and drive Japanese cars....Democrat does rhyme with hypocrite......

.....next we can talk about Obama's and Hillary's slum lord dealings......

 

[Superpilot92]

....now you did it..... you ruined the unionistas Republican bashing....Now they may have to answer for their own mistakes.....

....How many Democrats shop at Walmart and drive Japanese cars....Democrat does rhyme with hypocrite......

.....next we can talk about Obama's and Hillary's slum lord dealings......

Well i am pro-union since we are in a career field where it is a necessary evil but when i saw the video of Clinton and her Walmart cronies literally Bashing Unions, i believe the term was "blood sucking", i was not impressed with Hillary. jmho

 

[G-force]

Negatives Sky-high

Love all the ???'s and !!!!'s dude!!!!

Hillary is a corporate Clinton Democrat like her husband, but she will still be better than a Republican for labor issues. Hillary is not a Socialist. In contrast CAL not giving you and your family health insurance for the first six months is F'ed up; Airtran's family insurance for $500/month is F'ed up.

McCain is 'not a conservative', but he has a better pro-life record than Mass Gov. Rommney (ran as Pro-Choice). McCain 'isn't conservative', but has said many times that we'll be in the middle east for a long time. McCain 'isn't pro-business', but supported an immigrant program (like our current MBA President has).

Count me in as proud to be a 'Bad Democrat'. There are more and more of us switching sides who are conservative on social issues but registered Democrats.

OK dude,so you are voting for Hillary,then tell me why her NEGATIVE-PERCEPTIONS are sky HIGH??????

 

[Vne]

"If you want to live like a Republican then you must vote as a Democrat"

President Harry Truman

Its still true today.

 

[Crossky]

OK dude,so you are voting for Hillary,then tell me why her NEGATIVE-PERCEPTIONS are sky HIGH??????

Don't assume I'm voting for Hillary, I actually favored Edwards, and will consider how Obama is going to be with labor, and corporate reform/oversight. Electability and experience are concerns of mine as well.

Her 'negative perceptions' are a combination of fears instituted by Rush-Hannity-O'Reilley-Fox News, and the rest of the right wing media and repulsion of an american public who can't get over monicagate.

Also, she's not a slickster Ken-Doll like Mitt, and her public personna (body language, voice, speaking manner) could be more perfected. In that way she's similar to GWB, who has consistently fumbled grammar and pronounciation while using simple language, and people are endeared to him for that. Why not give cut her a little slack for showing that she's a real person as well?

 

[yourhairsonfire]

******************** Clinton

 

[atrdriver]

Its still true today.

No, it was true when Truman, and even Kennedy were in office. They were the last of what I would call the "good Democrats." The current Democrat party is a lot more socialist than they are anything else.

 

[G-force]

Edwards Voter ????

Don't assume I'm voting for Hillary, I actually favored Edwards, and will consider how Obama is going to be with labor, and corporate reform/oversight. Electability and experience are concerns of mine as well.

Her 'negative perceptions' are a combination of fears instituted by Rush-Hannity-O'Reilley-Fox News, and the rest of the right wing media and repulsion of an american public who can't get over monicagate.

Also, she's not a slickster Ken-Doll like Mitt, and her public personna (body language, voice, speaking manner) could be more perfected. In that way she's similar to GWB, who has consistently fumbled grammar and pronounciation while using simple language, and people are endeared to him for that. Why not give cut her a little slack for showing that she's a real person as well?

So dude,you are voting for former Sen.Edwards,who happens to be the BIGGEST EMPTY SUIT running for office anywhere.The guy is nothing but a HUGE BLEEDING HEART DO-GOODER that only knows how to file a lawsuit !!
The former Sen.from N.CAR. is also a huge EMBARRASSMENT to the good people of N.CAR.
Get off the Kool-aid and stay off the far-left websites!!!
Who needs a 28,000 sq.ft.house to live in anyway??
Obama has no experiece and Edwards has dropped out of the race!!

 

[Crossky]

So dude,you are voting for former Sen.Edwards,who happens to be the BIGGEST EMPTY SUIT running for office anywhere.The guy is nothing but a HUGE BLEEDING HEART DO-GOODER that only knows how to file a lawsuit !!
The former Sen.from N.CAR. is also a huge EMBARRASSMENT to the good people of N.CAR.
Get off the Kool-aid and stay off the far-left websites!!!
Who needs a 28,000 sq.ft.house to live in anyway??
Obama has no experiece and Edwards has dropped out of the race!!

So has Romney!!

How big and how many houses does Mitt have?

 

[Crossky]

The guy is nothing but a HUGE BLEEDING HEART DO-GOODER that only knows how to file a lawsuit !!

Get off the Kool-aid and stay off the far-left websites!!!

Just the way I like 'em. He wasn't an ambulance chaser, he didn't sue McDonald's cause a shaky woman couldn't hold her hot cut of coffee. His cases were justified. There's NOTHING wrong with fighting against CORPORATE GREED, CRONYISM and FRAUD, and that's what he talked about a lot.

Actually we drink a lot of Crystal Light in our house, and I give equal time to the left and right websites. It's interesting, conservatives and liberals both say that they're trying to restrict American's freedoms and are Fascists wolves in sheep clothing. I believe one thing is for sure, things AREN'T going to get better in our country. Even if Obama gets elected.

Thanks for believing in me though!

 

[G-force]

Make Up Your Mind !!!

Just the way I like 'em. He wasn't an ambulance chaser, he didn't sue McDonald's cause a shaky woman couldn't hold her hot cut of coffee. His cases were justified. There's NOTHING wrong with fighting against CORPORATE GREED, CRONYISM and FRAUD, and that's what he talked about a lot.

Actually we drink a lot of Crystal Light in our house, and I give equal time to the left and right websites. It's interesting, conservatives and liberals both say that they're trying to restrict American's freedoms and are Fascists wolves in sheep clothing. I believe one thing is for sure, things AREN'T going to get better in our country. Even if Obama gets elected.

Thanks for believing in me though!

So dude,whom are you supporting now? Obama?
The guy is nothing but a socialist!! The guy has never run anything in his life,never sponsored any landmark legislation,his only claim to fame is a law-degree from Harvard.He can ONLY talk about CHANGE because he has NO EXPERIENCE!!!!
The Crystal Light you claim to drink must be srewing you up,you would be well advised to get off the stuff since it is obviously laced with something!!!
An Obama administration would wreck the country!!we need more capitalism,NOT more socialism!!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So dude,whom are you supporting now? Obama?
The guy is nothing but a socialist!! The guy has never run anything in his life,never sponsored any landmark legislation,his only claim to fame is a law-degree from Harvard.He can ONLY talk about CHANGE because he has NO EXPERIENCE!!!!
The Crystal Light you claim to drink must be srewing you up,you would be well advised to get off the stuff since it is obviously laced with something!!!

What about Washington and Lincoln? They seem to have very little 'office' expereince.

What is wrong with socialism? Is all of Europe immoral?

Why is it pilots love the "socialism" of contracts, job protections, strikes, retirement bail outs and the like....

but it is all easily forgotten as they identify themselves as free market capitalist and placate limited corp america regulation.....all of which is designed to recycle jobs and keep wages, benefits and retirements cost controlled....

Pilots believe they are in the same league at CEO's and VPs when actually they have more in common with hotel maids. And of course, CEO's and VP's see no difference between pilots and hotel maids: they both are simply costs that must be controlled.

don't spit where you eat....

 

[PCL_128]

The guy is nothing but a socialist!!

Please indicate a "socialist" policy proposal that Obama has made.

 

[Crossky]

So dude,whom are you supporting now? Obama?
The guy is nothing but a socialist!! The guy has never run anything in his life,never sponsored any landmark legislation,his only claim to fame is a law-degree from Harvard.He can ONLY talk about CHANGE because he has NO EXPERIENCE!!!!
The Crystal Light you claim to drink must be srewing you up,you would be well advised to get off the stuff since it is obviously laced with something!!!
An Obama administration would wreck the country!!we need more capitalism,NOT more socialism!!!!

I can't help but picture the big labowski with your language!!

I'll support whoever the Democratic nominee is, let's just say that. I believe Clinton is more electable than Obama, but would like to learn more about Obama's proposed policies. The caucus is over where I live.

PCL_128, doesn't Obama favor Universal Health Care, and isn't that considered a 'Socialist' policy proposal?
I think that Social Security and Medicare were considered 'socialist' during their originating time as well.

Think about this: Between 1981 and 2000 medical related bankruptcies increased by 2,200%, during the same time personal bankruptcies incerased by 360%. We have over 45 million without health insurance.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL_128, doesn't Obama favor Universal Health Care, and isn't that considered a 'Socialist' policy proposal?

Obama does favor universal health care, but he doesn't favor a socialized version of it. Neither does the Hilldabeast. The programs that they are proposing continue the private health insurance business, but they make it available to everyone. The government does not take over health care under their proposals. That's called a single-payer system, and that would be socialized medicine. That's not on the table at all.

I think that Social Security and Medicare were considered 'socialist' during their originating time as well.

They are, because they are 100% government programs. Universal health care as proposed by Obama does not fit the same mold.

 

[pilotyip]

Pilots are the 10th guy

Pilots are the 10th guy in this story, elect a Dem and be part of the story.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1.
* The sixth would pay $3.
* The seventh would pay $7.
* The eighth would pay $12.
* The ninth would pay $18.
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.' Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
* The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!' 'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!''Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do
not understand, no explanation is possible.