ALPA endorses Clinton

[pylut]

Well,... ALPA sent a questionaire to all Preisdential candidates.. only four responded. If labor is insignificant..especially a small 60,000 member union..why would they reply.. of those four it was Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Kucinich...

Well then, shouldn't you berate them for lack of response and punish those who responded by calling them the minority and acting 180 degrees against their wishes? That's how alpo handled the age 65 survey.

Ya ya, I know they were making sure they got to insert all that great input into the new bill. What exactly was that again?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Thank you, Senator Craig!

Give my best to "Duke" and Tom Delay.

I don't want to be in a stall with Sen. Craig or a car with Teddy Kennedy......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc

I understand what you are saying, I think we are all trying to change the direction of this profession. It seems like you, Rez and Occam try to change it politically(as well as other ways),

Politically? Of course... is there any other way? If there was, what way? and would you want it that way?

Everything is politics.... everything... if you don't like it... fine. Just support those who are willing to politic for you...

yet I can't seem to vote based off improving career goals and expectations. I believe too strongly in the bold print I quoted and vote based on who aligns the most with my beliefs.

The bold print? Does abortion pay your mortgage?
Does gun control put your kids thru college? Pay the car loan? Immigration? Sure..if you are not careful a foreigner will be flying your jet and taking your job.

Do we have a problem with American jobs being replaced by foreigners in this country? Do you think the labor of flying jets is viewed differently than say... a taxi? Bus driver? construction worker? Labor is labor is labor.... it is a cost to be controlled!!

I'm not a big union fan but still support ALPA and want pilots to become more unified so we can all fight to improve this profession.

Good. So when ALPA says get involved, Back the PAC, etc.. and be effective we..do!

It just bothers me the way I feel Rez trys to ram his beliefs down our throats.

hmmm..is it perhaps that I am pushing you outside your comfort zone? It is easy to simply say "yeah, its black and white, what I believe it is righteous and true..." It is another to say.. "you know, on pilot issues I might have to support Hilary or Obama. I don't have to support her on gun control, gays and abortion (I don't), but I support Hilary on pilot issues!"

That is tough to say for most Air Line Pilots. can you say it?

Occam has the knowledge and facts to back his statements but does it in a tactful way (until someone gets him going). BTW Occam I think that "McCain is a dem" statement by ATR was just a joke, most repubs think of him as a dem because of several liberal beliefs and associations(i.e. Kennedy).

Occam has been around longer than I and has more Profession merit badges than I. I can't speak for him, but I am tired of pilots whining about our poor profession and refusing to get educated, informed, mobilized, effective and result orientated....

Pilots are like overweight people.. they want to to be thin but when diet and excercise is suggested they balk, turn on the Tivo and settle in with a 2 liter cola and bag of doritoes.... Which goes to show the people that control wealth in this country have got us right were they want us.. and we are content...

Like Occum said, it's ALPA's job to inform us on political issues that will effect us as pilots. That doesn't mean I have to agree or like their position on candidates or (some) issues.

Agreed. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you. ALPA only cares about pilot issues. But wait and see... Pilots will still get pissed....

Finally...and again... the goal... ISSUE Orientated politics... don't choose sides. Choose your house. If you want to work on gun control, gays, abortion, national defense, etc... you have to go to sleep somewhere each night. And you have to pay for it!! Don't take that for granted....

 

[MJ42]

I still believe all the same things I always have about abortion, gun control, national defense, immigration, etc

Good, we have something in common!




Politically? Of course... is there any other way? If there was, what way? and would you want it that way? Yes, see below.

Everything is politics.... everything... if you don't like it... fine. Just support those who are willing to politic for you...You're right, everything is political. Everybody has an agenda. Mine is to (when I start at NWA) help change ALPA from the inside, bottom up. Help improve everything ALPA was supposed to stand for yet somewhere over the years lost their vision. I just choose not to vote based on my airline career only. Everything considered, I vote based off the big picture and my convictions.





The bold print? Does abortion pay your mortgage?
Does gun control put your kids thru college? Pay the car loan? Immigration? Sure..if you are not careful a foreigner will be flying your jet and taking your job. See below.

Do we have a problem with American jobs being replaced by foreigners in this country? Do you think the labor of flying jets is viewed differently than say... a taxi? Bus driver? construction worker? Labor is labor is labor.... it is a cost to be controlled!!Correct, and I'll fight until the end so this won't happen. But if it does I'll make sure I can provide for my family.



Good. So when ALPA says get involved, Back the PAC, etc.. and be effective we..do!Correct!




hmmm..is it perhaps that I am pushing you outside your comfort zone? It is easy to simply say "yeah, its black and white, what I believe it is righteous and true..." It is another to say.. "you know, on pilot issues I might have to support Hilary or Obama. I don't have to support her on gun control, gays and abortion (I don't), but I support Hilary on pilot issues!"You can't push me outside my comfort zone, sorry, I'm not a push over. I'll support OUR next President no matter what! I disagree with most everything Hillary says and does, but if she does something to help pilots then I can give her credit. That doesn't mean I'll vote for her(or most likely Obama) because she MAY be ok for our profession.

That is tough to say for most Air Line Pilots. can you say it? See above.




Occam has been around longer than I and has more Profession merit badges than I. I can't speak for him, but I am tired of pilots whining about our poor profession and refusing to get educated, informed, mobilized, effective and result orientated....That's why I respect his opinion, but I can still think for myself while taking into account his experience.

Pilots are like overweight people.. they want to to be thin but when diet and excercise is suggested they balk, turn on the Tivo and settle in with a 2 liter cola and bag of doritoes.... Which goes to show the people that control wealth in this country have got us right were they want us.. and we are content...Glad I decided to stay in great shape after my college football days, and no I wasn't a kicker...42 is for my idol Ronnie Lott!(oh yeah, Pat Tillman also was 42 at ASU...what a hero!) I'm not content about the wealthy, but I'm not upset either. This is America, we all have the opportunities, just some people have had luck(such as coming from money) or determination in order to become successful.



Agreed. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you. ALPA only cares about pilot issues. But wait and see... Pilots will still get pissed....Always, it's our nature.

Finally...and again... the goal... ISSUE Orientated politics... don't choose sides. Choose your house. If you want to work on gun control, gays, abortion, national defense, etc... you have to go to sleep somewhere each night. And you have to pay for it!! Don't take that for granted....

I don't take it for granted, we just disagree about the way to achieve the same end result.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't take it for granted, we just disagree about the way to achieve the same end result.

ok.... sounds good...

riddle me this.... why not support your profession first... the medium that pays your house note...

Your replies are agreeable but really placate having your cake and eating it too....
So what comes first? Social issues or your mortgage? What is more important? Paying your house note each month like you agreed to do or abortion, gays and guns?

Most people do one thing every four years: vote for the President. They brush their hands clean and say... "I am done for the next four years.... I love this fire and forget democracy!!"

you've got to discuss the HOW. How are you going to adress both professional and social issues...

 

[MJ42]

ok.... sounds good...Agreed.

riddle me this.... why not support your profession first... the medium that pays your house note...What you don't seem to understand is...just because I don't vote democratic DOES NOT mean I don't support my profession or ALPA.

Your replies are agreeable but really placate having your cake and eating it too....In a perfect world, yes. But since this isn't a perfect world why can't I still strive to have it all?
So what comes first? Social issues or your mortgage? What is more important? Paying your house note each month like you agreed to do or abortion, gays and guns?I have a balance in my life, I don't throw my values under the bus so maybe a new President can help our profession.

Most people do one thing every four years: vote for the President. They brush their hands clean and say... "I am done for the next four years.... I love this fire and forget democracy!!"See below.

you've got to discuss the HOW. How are you going to adress both professional and social issues...

What people don't realize is the most important aspect of voting for a President is who they will appoint for Judges. The next Pres. will probably get to appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. This is much more important then any agenda driven policy making. And yes, if the sh!t hits the fan in our industry these judges will probably decide our fate. Although a liberal judge would be more labor friendly it does not mean they will rule in our favor. In the mean time while we wait to see if our industry tanks, I think liberal judges would do more damage to our country. To me, the risk is not worth the reward, we should depend on ourselves to control our own fate by changing ALPA for the better...getting back to what it was supposed to be, that's our goal!

 

[PCL_128]

You're correct in your belief that judges are very important. But then you toss aside the importance of having pro-labor judges. Look at the decisions handed down against airline labor over the past 10-15 years. Virtually every single one of the judges was appointed by Reagan or one of the Bushs. These people hold your very livelihood and the ability to take care of your family in their hands. I hope and pray that we can get Roe v Wade overturned at some point, but you have to think about your livelihood. All the social issues in the world don't mean jack if you can't put food on the table for your kids.

 

[MJ42]

You're correct in your belief that judges are very important. But then you toss aside the importance of having pro-labor judges. Look at the decisions handed down against airline labor over the past 10-15 years. Virtually every single one of the judges was appointed by Reagan or one of the Bushs. These people hold your very livelihood and the ability to take care of your family in their hands. I hope and pray that we can get Roe v Wade overturned at some point, but you have to think about your livelihood. All the social issues in the world don't mean jack if you can't put food on the table for your kids.

I think you and Rez miss my point. It seems the only thing you two are focused on is our profession(understandingly, because it pays our bills). I want a balanced approach, sticking to my beliefs while helping to turn ALPA around. ALPA has too many internal problems, in my opinion, to be concerned about first. I feel we need to change ALPA first so our union can get back to doing its job, helping us. It's also much more then social issues, it's about economy, tax(cuts) defense among others. I live within my means, which is key in such a cyclical and volatile industry. I fight to better our industry but am prepared to support my family if it tanks(like when I was furloughed after 9/11). I agree with your goals, just not the way to achieve them.

 

[PCL_128]

I think you and Rez miss my point. It seems the only thing you two are focused on is our profession(understandingly, because it pays our bills).

No, I'm merely subscribing to a method that Rez has talked about many times: "vote your job, lobby your hobby." In other words, I'll vote for Obama because he's best for my profession, but I'll also send money to causes I support such as the National Right to Life Committee and the NRA. That way, I can put someone in office that supports my livelihood, but also fund lobbyists that will fight to make sure that the social issues are taken care of.

 

[MJ42]

No, I'm merely subscribing to a method that Rez has talked about many times: "vote your job, lobby your hobby." In other words, I'll vote for Obama because he's best for my profession, but I'll also send money to causes I support such as the National Right to Life Committee and the NRA. That way, I can put someone in office that supports my livelihood, but also fund lobbyists that will fight to make sure that the social issues are taken care of.

Fair enough, I just don't subscribe to that theory because the economy, taxes and national defense are not hobbies to me.

Glad to see there are pilots who fight to better our industry, no matter what side we're on!