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ALPA endorses Clinton

PCL_128

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You don't get it PCL....If you make more, you already pay more....Most taxes are paid by those who make the most money....That is a fact.....
Not for social security, you don't. You actually pay less and less a percentage of your income as you make more and more above $97.5k. The system is backwards.
If ALPA operated with your logic, then those who make more within ALPA should pay a higher percentage of dues.....A senior Delta or United captain would pay 3.5% in dues, while a regional FO would pay 1% in dues.....would that be fair?
Not analogous, because there aren't a plethora of deductions to be taken to reduce dues payments as there are with tax payments. Nobody actually pays their tax bracket, because everyone takes deductions. ALPA's system is analogous to a flat tax, which I would support. Everyone pays exactly the same percentage with no deductions. That's not the way the tax system is set up, though, Joe. Under the current tax system, someone can sit in a higher tax bracket but pay a lower percentage of income because of the various deductions and sheltering schemes.
 

JoeMerchant

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Your information PCL simply isn't factual.....The top earners already pay most of the taxes....That is a fact....

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23023


"By 2006, the share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners was 70.8 percent, while the bottom 50 percent paid -0.3 percent -- The President’s bipartisan Tax Reform Panel stating “taxpayers in the lowest two quintiles [of earners] actually receive more in refunds from the federal government than they pay in income taxes and, as a result, have negative tax income burdens.

We have a spending problem and an over reliance on government in this country......We don't have a problem of not paying enough in taxes.......
 

PCL_128

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My information was 100% factual. You just want to talk about a completely different issue. What you posted has nothing to do with what we've been discussing. Typical far-right red herrings.
 

JoeMerchant

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You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......

They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......
 

PCL_128

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You said the top earners aren't paying their "fair" share.....That isn't true......


They are paying their "fair" share....Show me where they aren't.......
We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.
 

JoeMerchant

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We've already been over this, Joe. The rich pay less as a percentage of their income than the middle-class because they are able to manipulate the system to their advantage. A rich guy might pay 20% of his income in taxes while his employees pay 25%. That's not his fair share.
Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......

What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......

The fact is, many of the lower income get money from the tax system thru the Earned Income Tax Credit......The tax rebate that was just pushed thru doesn't give me any of my tax money back, but some people who don't pay any tax will get a rebate....How is that "fair"?
 

PCL_128

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Your sidestepping the issue.....Most of the tax revenue comes from the top.....The bottom third hardly pays anything......
The bottom third pays hardly anything because they're living in poverty. Many of them work at companies like WalMart that refuse to pay them a decent salary that would allow them to pay taxes in the first place. The dollar amount that the rich pays isn't the issue. The issue is that they pay a lower percentage of their income than the middle class. That's not right. They should pay at least as much as a percentage of income.
What you want to do is penalize those who have worked hard and take there money and give to those who largely have decided to not work as hard.......
Someone that works at WalMart isn't working hard? Someone that's in middle management isn't working hard? Someone that cleans toilets at hotels isn't working hard? I'd wager that you've never done anything close to the hard work that those in the lower class do. The fact that they don't make as much money doesn't mean that they aren't working hard. You want to put the rich on a pedestal and pretend that they work so much harder than the rest of us, but that's absurd. Many of them fell ass-backwards into money. Many of them make money by screwing over the "little people." They don't deserve the exalted status that you've given them. They are no different than the rest of us. They shouldn't get to pay less than their fair share.
 

JoeMerchant

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How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....

Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to...... The only exceptions are those with mental problems that prevent them.....

The fact remains....those at the bottom already don't pay taxes.....You simply want to punish those who worked hard......That is the Democratic motto..."Punish those who succeed"........
 

PCL_128

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How many of those in the bottom third have $50 per month cable bills, $50 per month cell phone bills, a new Plasm TV on credit, a new car every 3 years on credit, download ringtones, go to Starbucks 3 times a week, eat out 3 times a week, and rent because their credit is bad.......then complain because they can't pay their bills.....
A lot fewer than you think.
Anyone with normal means in this country can become wealthy if they CHOOSE to.
I used to believe that too........then I woke up.
 

JoeMerchant

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A lot fewer than you think.I used to believe that too........then I woke up.

Many of the folks I fly with who complain about money have a cup of Starbucks in their hand, and when they get the USAToday, they go right for the Purple section and the Orange section.....They don't touch the Green section......

If you talk to them, they know more about who Brittany Spears than the company 401k and the tax code.....They are more interested in American Idol than they are in Hannety and Colms.....

Life is full of choices....some make better choices than others......We shouldn't penalize those who make good choices.....
 
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pilotyip

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pleeeeeeeeeeease

A........then I woke up.
No you didn't, stop dealing in fantasy you pursued an airline pilot's career, a great path to middle class income
 

PCL_128

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No you didn't, stop dealing in fantasy you pursued an airline pilot's career, a great path to middle class income
Being a pilot used to be a great path to an upper-class income.....until people like John McCain changed all that.
 

G-force

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Over-taxed!!!!!!!!

Now that's fuzzy math. Examples:

Middle-class pilot making $65k per year pays $4,030 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program.

Middle-class pilot making $97,500 per year pays $6,045 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program. This is the absolute max that can be contributed under the current scheme.

Now, upper-class executive making $400k per year pays the same $6,045, or just 1.5% of his income into the SS program. He makes $302,500 more than the previous pilot (a 310% difference), but pays a fraction of the percentage that the pilot pays into the SS program. This is a direct tax on the middle class and poor, while the rich practically get a free ride. Unconscionable.


Under Obama's plan, everybody pays the same 6.2% of their income, whether they make $50k or $500k. Now that's fair.For many Americans, there is no benefits package!!! That's exactly why we have to have these ridiculous programs like SS and Medicaid. Employers don't treat their employees like human beings, so the government has to pick up the tab to make sure there's a safety net. Otherwise you end up with a huge burden on society from homeless elderly and sick lower-class workers. If companies like WalMart had to provide these programs for even the lowest-paid employees, maybe the government could get out of the retirement savings business.
Now dude,you say RAISE the ceiling on all income earners to PAY 6.2% of all income into the Social Security Trust Fund,while this sounds fair,have you run the projections?? Is it indeed going to do what you CLAIM it will ?? People in the higher income brackets still feel that they are OVER-TAXED!!In fact EVERYBODY feels that they are overtaxed!!!What about the AMT? what would you do about this? It is causing more and more taxpayers to be caught in this,since it is NOT INDEXED to INFLATION!! Go back and do some more homework!!!!

As far your boy,Sen Rookie from Ill.with no experience,he still has NOT won the Election yet!!
As far as the Dem majorities in the Congress,they are as sorry as they can be,but you believe they will increase their majorities in both chambers!!Let me remind you,the VOTES have NOT been counted yet!!!
 

PCL_128

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Now dude,you say RAISE the ceiling on all income earners to PAY 6.2% of all income into the Social Security Trust Fund,while this sounds fair,have you run the projections?? Is it indeed going to do what you CLAIM it will ??
It isn't the entire solution, it is a part of the solution, and it keeps the SS Trust Fund solvent for many years to come. Combined with weening people off of SS and into company-provided retirement plans, we can turn SS into exactly what it was always intended to be: a safety net.
People in the higher income brackets still feel that they are OVER-TAXED!!
Of course they do. They're greedy as hell. You expect them to just offer up more of their own volition? If government only received taxes that the people wanted to pay, then government wouldn't function.
What about the AMT? what would you do about this?
Eliminate it. I don't know of a single candidate that agrees with the current AMT. It will soon start eating into the incomes of the middle-class.
Let me remind you,the VOTES have NOT been counted yet!!!
If you think that the Reps will make gains in the Congress, then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.
 

atrdriver

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I want the millionaires to pay their fair of the tax burden. That's all. Poor gullible yip. Just more internet folklore that never actually happened. Read this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/pelosi.asp
So the fact that the top 5% of income earners pay about 90% of taxes isn't good enough for you, huh? Don't call people gullible when you start talking about re-distributing wealth.
 

atrdriver

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He also suggest requiring employers to provide a retirement fund in the form of a 401(k) or IRA. That would get Americans on the way to providing for their own retirement rather than depending on the government.
And yet, when Bush suggested that part of the money put aside for SS taxes be invested by individuals the left came unglued. Overall the return on investment for the government run SS is something on the order of 1.5%, over it's entire history. If Joe Worker did nothing more than put that money in the bank he would get substantially more than that.
 

atrdriver

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Obama isn't going to raise your income tax rates. This is the SS tax, commonly called the "payroll tax."
Oh jesus, what difference does it make what they CALL the tax? He is aiming to raise taxes. That's as bad as Kerry saying that he didn't own an SUV, because it was registered in his wifes name.
 

G-force

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Flat Tax

It isn't the entire solution, it is a part of the solution, and it keeps the SS Trust Fund solvent for many years to come. Combined with weening people off of SS and into company-provided retirement plans, we can turn SS into exactly what it was always intended to be: a safety net.Of course they do. They're greedy as hell. You expect them to just offer up more of their own volition? If government only received taxes that the people wanted to pay, then government wouldn't function.Eliminate it. I don't know of a single candidate that agrees with the current AMT. It will soon start eating into the incomes of the middle-class.If you think that the Reps will make gains in the Congress, then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.
All of you bleeding-heart do-gooders think that all problems can be solved by RAISING EVERYONE'S TAXES!This has already been tried,and it failed.
We need a FLAT TAX!! All income earners pay 20%,corporations & small business pay 20%,because it would be FAIR !!!!
Kill the AMT!! All income earners would pay into SS system based on all their income,your idea dude,but a good one nonetheless!!!
 
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atrdriver

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Now that's fuzzy math. Examples:

Middle-class pilot making $65k per year pays $4,030 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program.

Middle-class pilot making $97,500 per year pays $6,045 per year, or a flat 6.2% of his income into the SS program. This is the absolute max that can be contributed under the current scheme.

Now, upper-class executive making $400k per year pays the same $6,045, or just 1.5% of his income into the SS program. He makes $302,500 more than the previous pilot (a 310% difference), but pays a fraction of the percentage that the pilot pays into the SS program. This is a direct tax on the middle class and poor, while the rich practically get a free ride. Unconscionable.

And when he retires, that top executive won't get any more money OUT of the SS program than that pilot making 60K a year. If he puts more in, then the executive should get more out. But not according to Democrats. Sorry, just another example of wealth distribution, just this time future tense.
 

PCL_128

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So the fact that the top 5% of income earners pay about 90% of taxes isn't good enough for you, huh?
You want to talk about the dollar amount that they contribute, when the real measure should be the percentage of their own income that they contribute. An upper-class income earner shouldn't be able to pay only 20% of his income while the middle-class family that's struggling to get by has to pay 25%.
 
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