SWA/FL Codeshare

[Lear70]

So stop talking about it then. K?

Hard to resist correcting blatantly false information. Go back and take a look. The only time I say something about it is when someone else posts incorrect information.

 

[ATLplt]

We all wish SWA would not have bought your company. Every single one of us.

Turns out there is unity. Nearly 8000 pilots feel exactly the same way about something.

 

[Dash Power]

Hard to resist correcting blatantly false information. Go back and take a look. The only time I say something about it is when someone else posts incorrect information.

I went back and looked and I saw nothing blatantly false.

Now what?

 

[PCL_128]

Spot on.

Curiously only an outsider seems to be the angriest one of all.

Oh, I promise you, he's not the angriest.

 

[Lear70]

I went back and looked and I saw nothing blatantly false.

Now what?

Then your definition needs work. Pretty clear stuff.

OldManPilot was wrong about ALPA selling him out by not fighting harder for those who got stapled.

Scoreboard said he thought the list was fair because not one SWA pilot will retire at a lower position than they would have at a stand-alone SWA. I pointed out that just because ONE side thinks a deal is fair, does not a fair deal make, and we came to an understanding of where the pilots are on both sides of that issue.

Then CanyonBlue came out saying that he hated the talk of "relative seniority" and said he found it funny that HIS seniority didn't increase 60-70%, inferring that the numbers were off. So I explained how that worked with real numbers.

Then dipwit chimed in with a personal attack.

Then TriPower had to come on here and say that we "gave up" Capt seats and pay from day one, which is a blatant falsehood, or did you miss that one?

Then he also said many SWA pilots were PERMANENTLY harmed, a falsehood I again had to clear up, going back to what Scoreboard said way back on page 5 or so... no SWA pilot retires at a lesser relative seniority position - that's how the list was created by SWA management.

Then Flyin guy accused me of lying about the math, a blatant falsehood I had to clear up with my exact placement on the pre- and post-merger list. The math is the math is the math, and my loss isn't 'math magic', it's just plain old math.

Any questions?

 

[say again]

I went back and looked and I saw nothing blatantly false.

Now what?

Of course you didn't!! :beer:

 

[General Lee]

Spot on.

Curiously only an outsider seems to be the angriest one of all.

"angriest?" I am just pointing out what a complete load of crock it is. My AT friends agree too. And btw, this isn't an inclusive board. "An outsider?" Dork!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Then your definition needs work. Pretty clear stuff.

OldManPilot was wrong about ALPA selling him out by not fighting harder for those who got stapled.

Scoreboard said he thought the list was fair because not one SWA pilot will retire at a lower position than they would have at a stand-alone SWA. I pointed out that just because ONE side thinks a deal is fair, does not a fair deal make, and we came to an understanding of where the pilots are on both sides of that issue.

Then CanyonBlue came out saying that he hated the talk of "relative seniority" and said he found it funny that HIS seniority didn't increase 60-70%, inferring that the numbers were off. So I explained how that worked with real numbers.

Then dipwit chimed in with a personal attack.

Then TriPower had to come on here and say that we "gave up" Capt seats and pay from day one, which is a blatant falsehood, or did you miss that one?

Then he also said many SWA pilots were PERMANENTLY harmed, a falsehood I again had to clear up, going back to what Scoreboard said way back on page 5 or so... no SWA pilot retires at a lesser relative seniority position - that's how the list was created by SWA management.

Then Flyin guy accused me of lying about the math, a blatant falsehood I had to clear up with my exact placement on the pre- and post-merger list. The math is the math is the math, and my loss isn't 'math magic', it's just plain old math.

Any questions?

Well stated Lear. Many of these Corndogs will never admit to any possible wrong doing by SWAPA. Typical.

BTW Lear, I hope you at least consider the other airline based in ATL when hiring eventually kicks in. It might be a good alternative.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

General, I'm not trying to rub anyone's face in the perceived "wrongness" on one side of the argument "fence" or another, just pointing out that the only time I bring these arguments up is when someone says something so untrue that I can't just let it go without clarification.

Do I understand that they don't like the deal? Sure. There's lots not to like on BOTH sides.

But that's no reason to start talking about it in ways that are patently false.

 

[Dash Power]

Then your definition needs work. Pretty clear stuff.

OldManPilot was wrong about ALPA selling him out by not fighting harder for those who got stapled.

Scoreboard said he thought the list was fair because not one SWA pilot will retire at a lower position than they would have at a stand-alone SWA. I pointed out that just because ONE side thinks a deal is fair, does not a fair deal make, and we came to an understanding of where the pilots are on both sides of that issue.

Then CanyonBlue came out saying that he hated the talk of "relative seniority" and said he found it funny that HIS seniority didn't increase 60-70%, inferring that the numbers were off. So I explained how that worked with real numbers.

Then dipwit chimed in with a personal attack.

Then TriPower had to come on here and say that we "gave up" Capt seats and pay from day one, which is a blatant falsehood, or did you miss that one?

Then he also said many SWA pilots were PERMANENTLY harmed, a falsehood I again had to clear up, going back to what Scoreboard said way back on page 5 or so... no SWA pilot retires at a lesser relative seniority position - that's how the list was created by SWA management.

Then Flyin guy accused me of lying about the math, a blatant falsehood I had to clear up with my exact placement on the pre- and post-merger list. The math is the math is the math, and my loss isn't 'math magic', it's just plain old math.

Any questions?

Yeah. Do you find it a coincidence that after 5 years of negotiating you got your contract with the large raises after SWA bought your company after a few months earlier your pilot group overwhelmingly by over 90% voted to strike?

The AT guys I have met on the line have great attitudes and say they are real happy to be here. So I won't take you and others on this board and stereo type how freakin clueless you are when you you look at this outside your myopic vision.

And General, you have no friends. You are sick little neurotic FI psycho with a penis so small it is called a clitoris.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah. Do you find it a coincidence that after 5 years of negotiating you got your contract with the large raises after SWA bought your company after a few months earlier your pilot group overwhelmingly by over 90% voted to strike?

No, but it also wasn't what we were looking for, either. It fell short of where I thought we should be by about 15%, we only agreed to it because the NMB telegraphed they would park us with the SWA deal imminent. It's not a great CBA, but it's better than what we had. In fact, the pilots weren't happy with it, either. The MEC sold it as "You'll only have to live with it a year or two until the SWA deal is done and we get Contract parity". Our pilots still b*tch about that claim on our internal board.

The AT guys I have met on the line have great attitudes and say they are real happy to be here. So I won't take you and others on this board and stereo type how freakin clueless you are when you you look at this outside your myopic vision.

BWAAAHAHAHA!!!

You REALLY think anyone is going to tell you once they're over there what they really think? When they're surrounded by pretty much all OSW and the walls have ears? Not to mention, our guys are WAY too professional to start a confrontation over it. They'll simply tell you what you want to hear, smile, and move on.

We AAI pilots who post on this board clueless? Pot, meet kettle.

Oh, and by the way, when you talk about "Myopic vision", you might want to take a look in the mirror. You only look at this from YOUR narrow point of view. You can't see how WE are affected by this (much worse than OSW pilots for our ENTIRE career, not just a few brief years), nor can you see how this deal went down as compared to the ENTIRE AVIATION INDUSTRY in the last 10 years, nor can you see how other airlines see this deal. I jumpseat on DAL a lot as well, and I get a lot of "Wow, I thought OUR integration sucked, sorry for your luck".

Myopic? Again, pot, meet kettle.

And General, you have no friends. You are sick little neurotic FI psycho with a penis so small it is called a clitoris.

Wow. That's some serious hostility. I thought it was just me, but you're pretty equal opportunity with that anger. Have you talked to HIMS yet?

 

[General Lee]

Yeah. Do you find it a coincidence that after 5 years of negotiating you got your contract with the large raises after SWA bought your company after a few months earlier your pilot group overwhelmingly by over 90% voted to strike?

The AT guys I have met on the line have great attitudes and say they are real happy to be here. So I won't take you and others on this board and stereo type how freakin clueless you are when you you look at this outside your myopic vision.

And General, you have no friends. You are sick little neurotic FI psycho with a penis so small it is called a clitoris.

Hahahaha! Funny stuff. I have plenty of friends and plenty of "fans." I get more PMs from pilots on here who tell me "well done" and "keep it going." Your Mom actually PM'd me and said to keep needling you, you deserve it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[OakRBust]

General.... Go kick your dog, or kiss OYS goodnight, or maybe check your kids homework. I am not sure why you continue to swat a bees nest that is over a 1000 miles from your property. It is puzzling... Enjoy your fans and PM's.


Lear.... I know that you are a reasonably intelligent man. Both sides have sections of their list that are permanently harmed for the life of their careers by this integration. If you can't see that, than you are the myopic one and it doesn't really matter how long this post is so I won't waste yours or my time. This deal is done.... The harm has been done..... Being pissed about it isn't going to change it... I would ask all the Airtran bros and sisses to remember that none of the OSW pilots wanted to buy a company... we all would have preferred organic growth.... that didn't happen.... I am certain that you all would still like to be captains and maybe would have preferred to stand alone as well and that didn't happen either... I wish I won powerball... but i didn't.... This deal is done.... We are all now RSW pilots. Lets start acting like that.... Now it is about the fifth and the twentieth. Let's all pull in the same direction and hopefully enjoy a great rest of our careers together. I will gladly get the first round or three.... Let's all let this dead horse die. Let's drink a few beers in AMA, let's make a lot of money and die happy.

Respectfully,
Another cog in the wheel
The guy two stools down
A family man who enjoys the job but not necessarily the career
A guy who got lucky and got hired here over NWA
A guy who I am sure isn't all that different from you

 

[Skyboy722]

General,

Any comments about post #120?

 

[jonjuan]

Hahahaha! Funny stuff. I have plenty of friends and plenty of "fans." I get more PMs from pilots on here who tell me "well done" and "keep it going." Your Mom actually PM'd me and said to keep needling you, you deserve it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Bet you still have all your trophies that say "Number 3 son" with the lady golfer on top.

 

[FlyinGuy]

They'll simply tell you what you want to hear, smile, and move on.

Just like you will hear the "professional" SWA pilot do the same in return.

We AAI pilots who post on this board clueless? Pot, meet kettle.

Oh, and by the way, when you talk about "Myopic vision", you might want to take a look in the mirror. You only look at this from YOUR narrow point of view. You can't see how WE are affected by this (much worse than OSW pilots for our ENTIRE career, not just a few brief years), nor can you see how this deal went down as compared to the ENTIRE AVIATION INDUSTRY in the last 10 years, nor can you see how other airlines see this deal. I jumpseat on DAL a lot as well, and I get a lot of "Wow, I thought OUR integration sucked, sorry for your luck".

Two things Mr Lear.

First, you sure have a way of using the "graphs" and saying how our guys are not harmed, yet you use reality when it comes to the AT side. I could use the "graphs" and show everyone how your pain will be for a few short years, then show how you will be way ahead financially when you retire. But guess what....this is not about graphs.....this is about reality. There will be pain for many of our F/O's for much longer than a "few short years". My guess is that many will feel this pain for at least a decade, but probably longer. As far as the AT bros, there is pain and many of us know that. Most of us sympathize with you. Why, because we have families too and would not want wish that on anyone!!

Second, the deal is the deal. I understand that AT does not like where they are at. Guess what, SWA pilots do not like it either. I am confused about those that think it was SWAPA's job to concede to any agreement that was not the best deal for its pilots. I don't care what the "industry" says. The job of your union is to produce results. Not to help the other side. AT ALPA wanted relative. SWAPA wanted a staple. Guess what....we negotiated somewhere in between. So like it or not, we all move forward.

 

[Tripower455]

Then TriPower had to come on here and say that we "gave up" Capt seats and pay from day one, which is a blatant falsehood, or did you miss that one?

How is that a blatent falsehood? Your group was offered ALL of your capt seats, and pay parity, starting day one, or close to it... I forget the exact date, since I've ram dumped that ridiculous deal from my mind. Your MEC turned that down and never even let it get to a vote.

Then he also said many SWA pilots were PERMANENTLY harmed, a falsehood I again had to clear up, going back to what Scoreboard said way back on page 5 or so... no SWA pilot retires at a lesser relative seniority position - that's how the list was created by SWA management.

That doesn't mean that many weren't harmed for a long time, if not permanently. Our -3/+1 monthly vacancy model is killing the MCO guys with the acquisition (it was bad enough before), and they aren't getting an 80%+ pay raise to help ease the pain. Temporary? We'll see, but being forced to commute for many years, when you otherwise wouldn't have, is harm.

My entire point to Ty was that there is plenty of pain on our side of the fence too.

You accuse us of not being able to see your side, yet are obviously blind to our issues (or at least won't acknowledge them).

Slightly better "global" seniority for the majority of SW pilots doesn't make up for the rest, especially when you consider that we bought an airline, are dumping 2/3 of the fleet, and keeping all of the employees, many of whom were placed in front of our guys.

If this was such a windfall for our guys, then why the hell is everyone over here so pissed off about it, and have been since the 9/27 announcement.

According to the FI brain trust, we should be dancing in the streets over the windfall we've gotten at the AT folks expense, yet that is not remotely the case.

FWIW, I've flown with several AT guys in the last few months, and every one of them, particularly the FOs, were very happy to ecstatic about being at SW. Even the 8 year Capt. finally admitted that he made more $$$ at SW as an FO, working less than he ever did on the other side. Flying with the AT guys (so far) is like the old days when I got to fly with a lot of new hires. Great attitudes and an overall "lighter", dare I say, "fun" atmosphere in the cockpit than with my RSW bros of late. That, to me, says it all.......


Oh, and I notice that the troll hasn't attempted to refute my post on Delta's idea of acceptable pay parity timelines.....

 

[redflyer65]

I appreciate the offer, Red, but I don't think it will make any difference; there are no direct comparisons. . . . If you live in base, you can't appreciate what is important to a commuter. And, if you are still on your first wife, the money isn't as important as when you're on your third, or so I hear.

Sorry about the "stupid" comment, probably uncalled for, but the only thing more aggravating than losing something is to to lose it to someone who doesn't appreciate what it is they are getting- we can probably all agree on that.

Ty

No worries Ty. As humvee said, it's done and over. Time to move forward. I look forward to flying with you guys and working toward a common goal instead of poking each other in the eye.

RF

 

[OakRBust]

Well said Red.

As SWAPA says far to often... This ship has sailed.. It is time to put on our swimsuits, go to the swim up bar, and stop banging our heads on these damn keyboards. No more FAT's or RSW... we are all Southwest now. Drink up!

This board was so much better when all we had to bash on was the private and up in your six.

Happy Wednesday boys and girls.... make it a good one!

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm sorry, but I've got to say it's a little empty hearing the SWA folks singing kumbyya we should all be one happy family now. You wanted to staple them, SWAPA didn't exactly take the high road in this merger and your management was duplicitous to say the least. The AirTran guys had their career expectations rug pulled out from under them and now you want them to just smile and forget it all happened?

Mergers and aquisistions are all about greed. You can't just screw them over and expect everything to be fine. There is and there should be negative consequences for any organization that tries to grow at the expense of someone else.